X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:52:53 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm18-vm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.94] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with SMTP id 5260905 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:25:47 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.94; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.57] by nm18.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2011 17:25:11 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.245] by tm10.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2011 17:25:11 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1059.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2011 17:25:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 798435.53816.bm@omp1059.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 30169 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Nov 2011 17:25:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=y/AtrW4XEh2xq5Lx3GUwlinC5877S40IQlOTIfLS0CTU0sZCbFm6NWiOXXj5B/Z6GARrMO60n6T3RxG8C51m2XVr918qHzT9d6DgDNDn0JYmlHV1naLDitlrHJ+MU8aa6BVf8Lsho5e89GtbDldZjr6d/BFRC4bp25mRKK+YkEM=; X-YMail-OSG: Ro3Bos4VM1mj50ts3tkLokFx3IhL6ELa0nbm3eU8N45wpmz i.mQORDmCdiz6xHnWeA3sJYSJERDx_YGKsDkLfH4UnnOopD2evB70AMV9xOf sFtP7CSKC3BkjpgsbzGsEsshIR6MhLq2SKHxqNI4NUpHBi0JEDIs0cpPsd65 .OzeyKCjQcx0YBi_ChQ2eG1D9qMwDvcXlULL0fEWEGI6ktIS.mwMVJx.0W2J U3T4Iw28SSqchz1R4W16dzHpAuwXcsQ8hgHrB4HcAbkLE3i1CLKwAZldOLUd cxp6MBZHQi5Qopl9S5xQifPV8vtrBShD10Y7vZEytwA1WNHPwi.gMFcy8fMk mH4zvTmk8QNMkqo12n7F.p5B2l0DJ1am_8HjnBvU2DynaY01tcTrkL9HHsJg 42U.DUfOf0oUage5fL5IlRr6lpgdvulMnMl3r49wozO_bXZMeBWMycwdnhLH meAFts3XQHb99VLCpbdtgurma_yaqrPQdkOLXXlEK4mJwnNaghTB8sqDqicq zEgGuidiQftZ6OIJIKLjTPNgHmt1Q.2Qm5sQFk6RQPNSrIYiPwUVduBXfJ4K 3Edzr5UJcFIAEZ3yVTVfsZOUaf8WcSV3dADKv4dYFEzYqWlYJU5am6wfeM3. m2xwRLqeA2KeGSk6cRgEukQomDXziRYtJujt2Rzre.3nFjntUZmO7OvR_8D4 BDYL1_52F645h_j7_IG8vXykW_tr5wCGFirRL7oIr5Lo6hU9Ah8exd0Q6kpY lOhfkkrZaSCKF7rp2IuViRRvEmsF0ZfALDyX1h.9VGCjhULrg.ZeGteLQ9Bo - Received: from [99.137.192.233] by web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:25:11 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.115.325013 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1322414711.73279.YahooMailNeo@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 09:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy vibrations resolved X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-2114655128-67830297-1322414711=:73279" ---2114655128-67830297-1322414711=:73279 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You might consider using LPS2 on your Carbinge hinge pins.=C2=A0 This=C2=A0= should help with=C2=A0the corrosion and the need to use Scotchbright to cle= an them.=C2=A0 LPS2 has worked very well on the reamed aluminum/stainless c= ombination. =C2=A0I use it to clean/lube my hinges during each annual condi= tion inspection.=C2=A0 Below is a link to a clip showing both new reamed hi= nge material and a reamed aileron hinge after nine years and=C2=A0850 hours= TIS.=C2=A0=C2=A0The aluminum hinges are=C2=A0on track=C2=A0to outlast ever= ything else on the airframe.=C2=A0 =0Ahttp://www.n91cz.com/HingePlay/Ream85= 0hours.wmv=0A=C2=A0=0AHere is a comparison of four hinge options examined a= nd tested several years ago.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.n91cz.com/HingePl= ay/HingePlayComparison-hires.wmv=0A=C2=A0=0AConclusions were:=0A-The best f= it was obtained using SS welding rod with MS20001 hinge material.=0A-Nylon = or Teflon inserts or sleeves could not take high loads.=C2=A0 (i.e. asymmet= ric actuation such as outback=C2=A0flaps and inboard gear doors)=C2=A0 They= =C2=A0would deform and creep and had to be replaced.=C2=A0 (40,000 psi for = aluminum vs. 2,000 psi for Nylon)=0A-SS welding rod=C2=A0had the highest=C2= =A0load carrying capability of all the options.=0A-Time and use have=C2=A0p= roven the durability=C2=A0the MS20001/SS welding rod combination to be=C2= =A0outstanding.=C2=A0 =0A=0A=C2=A0=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.= N91CZ.net=0A=0AFrom: John Barrett =0ATo: lml@lancair= online.net =0ASent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:11 PM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: = Legacy vibrations resolved=0A=0A=0AFor any production hinges a tolerance is= required between diameter of the orifice and diameter of the pin in order = to avoid having to reject lots of parts that have too much friction. =C2=A0= For this reason, the amount of play in Carbinge vs aluminum is likely to be= similar.=C2=A0 In either case, you can substitute different size pins in o= rder to diminish the play.=0A=C2=A0=0AA major and important difference betw= een the two is that with aluminum hinges I don=E2=80=99t think you can avoi= d corrosive wear of the inside diameter of the hinge over time.=C2=A0 There= fore aluminum hinges will always become looser over time and will tend to d= evelop the play being discussed even if during installation the parts are m= atch fit to avoid play.=0A=C2=A0=0ACarbinge in our tests does not wear over= time.=C2=A0 The fit at installation should remain the same.=C2=A0 =0A=C2= =A0=0AIn either case, the pin itself can corrode.=C2=A0 This will usually r= esult in the pin being more difficult to remove because of rust deposits on= the pin.=C2=A0 It is good with Carbinge applications to occasionally remov= e the pins and clean them with Scotchbrite before re-inserting. =C2=A0Stain= less Steel pins can decrease this concern but they tend to be more brittle = and can fail due to breakage in some applications.=0A=C2=A0=0ARegards,=0AJo= hn Barrett=0ALeading Edge Composites=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:Lancair Mailing List [= mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of marv@lancair.net=0ASent: Friday,= November 25, 2011 6:11 AM=0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net=0ASubject: [LML] Re:= Legacy vibrations resolved=0A=0APosted for "Bill Wade" :=0A=0A=C2=A0 I agree. I=E2=80=99m using Carbinges on my IV-P M= G doors and I thought they had too =0Amuch play. I think the stock pins are= suitable when you=E2=80=99re attaching cowlings =0Aor other curved surface= s but I wanted a tighter fit for use as a hinge, =0Aespecially if they=E2= =80=99d be used for trim tabs.=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0 I found a source for preci= sion ground VAR stainless =0Ahttp://www.smallparts.com/stainless-precision-= ground-straightened-vacuum-arc/dp/B003R50276/ref=3Dsr_1_1?sr=3D1-1&qid=3D13= 22133332&filterBy.material_browse=3D16414 =0A. I tried a range of diameters= and found 0.083 was a good fit. =E2=80=93Bill Wade=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom: Chris = Zavatson =0A=C2=A0Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:05 PM=0A=C2=A0To: l= ml@lancaironline.net =0A=C2=A0Subject: [Norton AntiSpam][LML] Re: Legacy vi= brations resolved=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0The elevator trim tab is perhaps the mos= t neglected control surface that can =0Areally ruin your day.=C2=A0=C2=A0Th= e goal for us should be to remove all play from the =0Atrim tab system.=C2= =A0=C2=A0There are many ADs and service bulletins written against =0Acertif= ied planes specifying the acceptable limits.=C2=A0=C2=A0We don't have the l= uxury =0Aof such a guidance and thus only find the limits through experienc= es conveyed =0Aby others that have stumbled across the edge.=C2=A0=C2=A0Unf= ortunately the inherent play =0Ain Carbinge is similar to that of stock MS = hinge material and will not improve =0Athe situation described in Steve's p= ost.=C2=A0=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0I think Randy's post is also referring to the sphe= rical bearings used in the =0Atail of the 320/360 MkII and the Legacy in ad= dition to the trim tab hinge =0A(Randy, correct me if I am wrong).=C2=A0=C2= =A0The spherical bearing can be upgraded to =0Asome made to tighter toleran= ces and with better alloys.=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0Chris Zavatson=0A=C2=A0N91CZ= =0A=C2=A0360std=0A=C2=A0www.N91CZ.net=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---2114655128-67830297-1322414711=:73279 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You mig= ht consider using LPS2 on your Carbinge hinge pins.  This=  should help with the corrosion and the need to use Scotchbright = to clean them.  LPS2 has worked very well on the reamed a= luminum/stainless combination.  I use it to clean/lube my= hinges during each annual condition inspection.  Below i= s a link to a clip showing both new reamed hinge material and a= reamed aileron hinge after nine years and 850 hours TIS. &= nbsp;The aluminum hinges are on track to outlast everythin= g else on the airframe. 
http://www.n91cz.= com/HingePlay/Ream850hours.wmv
 
Here is a comparison of four hinge options examined and tested several= years ago. 
 
 
Conclusions were:
-The best fit was obtained using SS welding rod with MS20001 hinge mat= erial.
-Nylon or Teflon inserts or sleeves could not take high loads.  (= i.e. asymmetric actuation such as outback flaps and inboard gear doors= )  They would deform and creep and had to be replaced.  (40,= 000 psi for aluminum vs. 2,000 psi for Nylon)
-SS welding rod had the highest load carrying capability of = all the options.
-Time and use have proven the durability the MS20001/SS weld= ing rod combination to be outstanding.&n= bsp;
 
 
Chris Zavatson
<= FONT size=3D3>N91CZ
<= FONT size=3D3>360std
<= A style=3D"RIGHT: auto" href=3D"http://www.n91cz.net/" target=3D_blank>www.N91CZ.net

From: John Barrett <jbarrett@carbinge.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Friday, November 25, 201= 1 8:11 PM
Subject: [LML]= Re: Legacy vibrations resolved