X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:52:53 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm8-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.138] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with SMTP id 5261357 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 01:28:27 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.138; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.50] by nm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2011 06:27:51 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.165] by tm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2011 06:27:51 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1021.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2011 06:27:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 255015.96186.bm@omp1021.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 55317 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2011 06:27:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=HHkw6WwQ4mBgT/bkzTRr+FzexMHarqV2Y+mpxQlCBmnsR5pt7VWF5/eY3bW/8cDRB3ZFgWYoJWaWiO8bB7znO7dKKbLTP3eFLN9UBtoOKHYpCVBeST+w7th/yK9GrC2858vyxgagKgJesVkYFbhKY+lHaRfexGS8o0XWwvGWcEE=; X-YMail-OSG: JhW3eK4VM1nz6rphJd08qlH4l6G.aAVEOyIbDSnDpzGY8La v.3P8cKgcGGUjd.ayoLkC9dGb3vRsYk9xE0GsuVRsrmomEnCXYMrzJxAwslf CoKehzjeO1CYA4DfxX2GW4vs.6pNR1sZeQHa3ZTkfjy0BZzbum8xli0IqxLK 2EDoSP0DoXa06aCa3oRrk6PP7QFF1NClnRz1VT3JwX2wiZAU5L7jPDNMtMww zYyARztfhm_1NNiVMy8ZHOxLi2zeBOFjVzsvXFgmcSB0jNHuJcodn2n06Crs Mraf8TBYhHdIBCXzjxIzfviehzhWvQr4WS4RLTxEdqmOx8IHSgqIBUVssaSD HGxOLAFfXnXdlQa.cSIhgWTnjtUywGccB.8zHwykJOMZ4Iz0WmIFUL6k83nI z7n0v_Mb3MQ_Dl61EezAS3DoCHUTrts4MwPrF3J5PosA3YKXB3BYmhgPoIjt bWG1U2ImWHA_MlZVprwELso05Nzr7iDcr91gW7qTb9HhyriG.IV4qJU.bXjj s9YiNdus- Received: from [99.137.192.233] by web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:27:50 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.115.325013 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1322461670.29305.YahooMailNeo@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:27:50 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: E-Mag/P-Mag X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-2114655128-990100092-1322461670=:29305" ---2114655128-990100092-1322461670=:29305 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary, Scott,=0AA little off-thread, but...=A0=0ADo our Lycoming cylinders r= equire=A0that each spark=A0plug fires to properly=A0propagate the combustio= n event throughout the entire cylinder?=A0 On those planes that have one ma= g and one EI (and while the EI has advanced=A0its spark), does the mag cont= ribute or can it even still fire?=0A=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Aww= w.N91CZ.net=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Nov 26, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Sky2high@aol.com wrote:= =0A=0A=0AGary and Chris,=0A>=0A>Here is detailed info from my most recent l= ong=A0trip (ARR-EDC-PLK-ARR).=A0 Perhaps you can deduce more as the RPM was= in the 2480 to 2500 range for all legs.=0A>=0A>ARR->EDC 820 NM 4.7 hrs blo= ck to block.=A0 Flown at 6500 MSL to avoid higher headwinds at higher altit= udes and LOP (economy)=A0to eliminate a fuel stop.=A0 Conditions were const= ant for the entire trip and all four data points are very similar. OAT 19C,= Dalt 7500, KIAS 168, KTAS 187, 24.8" MAP, 2480 RPM, 7.4=A0GPH and 24.5 DBT= DC.=A0 Actual flight time was 4.3 hours and I put 32.1 gallons=A0at EDC hav= ing been left with a reserve of 9.9 gals.=0A>=0A>EDC->PLK 440 NM 2.4 hours = block to block.=A0 Flown at 9500 MSL to use the winds and ROP (best power) = to go fast.=A0 OAT 16C,=A0 Dalt 11000, KIAS 163, KTAS 190 (Ahhh,=A0over PGO= =A0GS 208 Kts), 22.1" MAP, 2490 RPM, 8.5 GPH and 27 DBTDC.=A0=0A>=0A>PLK-> = ARR 380 NM 2.2 hours block to block.=A0 Flown at 7500 MSL and ROP.=A0 OAT 1= 8C, Dalt 8700, KIAS 171, KTAS 194, 24.1" MAP, 2500 RPM, 9.8 GPH and 25 DBTD= C.=0A>=0A>Scott Krueger=0A>IO 320,=A09:1 CR, unfiltered ram air, dual Plasm= a III EI,=A0Hartzell CS prop, uh,=A0a few drag reducers....=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>= =0A>In a message dated 11/26/2011 9:23:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, casey= .gary@yahoo.com writes:=0A>Scott,=0A>>Thanks for the information.=A0 I took= your numbers and did a crude reqression analysis and came up with the foll= owing:=A0 The advance increases by 2.2 degrees per thousand rpm above 1700 = and 0.85 degrees per inche of manifold pressure below 28.=A0 Just gives a r= ough idea of how it works.=0A>>Gary=0A>>=0A>>From Scott:=0A>>Restricting my= comments to Lycoming engines (320, 360), one would note that 25 DBTDC is t= he fixed timing delivered by standard magnetos and that timing is adequate = for a wide range of engine operations. My injected 320 engine has a 9:1 CR = and uses a base timing of 20 DBTDC. Normal ROP cruise settings in the 4000 = to 9000 MSL range and 2500 RPM (say 21 to 25 MAP), the timing is between 24= and 26 DBTDC. At takeoff and low altitude race power settings (2760 -2600 = RPM, WOT, 28-30 MAP), the timing is about 22-23 DBTDC. At leaned idle/taxi = power (<10" MAP, <1100 RPM) the timing is about 34-35 DBTDC. At altitudes 1= 0000- 14000 MSL, 2500 RPM, WOT and LOP the timings are generally 29-31 DBTD= C.=0A>>Scott Krueger ---2114655128-990100092-1322461670=:29305 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary, Scott,
A little off-thread, but... 
Do our Lycomi= ng cylinders require that each spark plug fires to properl= y propagate the combustion event throughout the e= ntire cylinder?  On those planes that have one mag and one EI (and while the EI has advanced its spark), does the mag contribute or= can it even still fire?
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
Gary and Chris,
 
Here is detailed info from my most recent long trip (ARR-EDC-PL= K-ARR).  Perhaps you can deduce more as the RPM was in the 2480= to 2500 range for all legs.
 
ARR->EDC 820 NM 4.7 hrs b= lock to block.  Flown at 6500 MSL to avoid higher headwinds at higher altitudes and LOP (economy) = to eliminate a fuel stop.  Conditions were constant for the entire tri= p and all four data points are very similar. OAT 19C, Dalt 7500, KIAS 168, KTAS 187, 24.8" MAP, 2480 RPM, 7.4 GPH and 24.5 DBTDC<= /SPAN>.  Actual flight time was 4.3 hours and I put 32.1 gallons = at EDC having been left with a r= eserve of 9.9 gals.
 
EDC->PLK 440 NM 2.4 hours block to block.  Flown at= 9500 MSL to use the winds and <= SPAN id=3Dmisspell-17 class=3Dmark>ROP (best power) to go fast. = ; OAT 16C,  Dalt 11000, KIAS 163, KTAS 190 (Ahhh, over PGO GS 208 Kts)= , 22.1" MAP, 2490 RPM, 8.5 GPH a= nd 27 DBTDC. 
 
PLK-> ARR 380 NM 2.2 hou= rs block to block.  Flown at 7500 = MSL and ROP.  OAT 18= C, Dalt 8700, KIAS 171, KTAS 194, 24.1" MAP, 2500 RPM, 9.8 GPH and 25 DBTDC.
 
Scott Krueger
IO 320, 9:1 CR, unfiltered ram air, dual Plasma III EI, = Hartzell CS prop, uh, a few drag reducers.... 
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/26/2011 9:23:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, casey.gary@yahoo.com writes:
Scott,
Thanks for the information.  I took your numbers and did a crude = reqression analysis and came up = with the following:  The advance increases by 2.2 degrees per thousand= rpm above 1700 and 0.85 degrees per in= che of manifold pressure below 28.  Just gives a rough idea of = how it works.
Gary
 
From Scott:
Restricting my comments to Lycomin= g engines (320, 360), one would note that 25 DBTDC is the fixed timing delivered by standard magneto= s and that timing is adequate for a wide range of engine operations. My inj= ected 320 engine has a 9:1 CR and uses a base timing of 20 DBTDC. Normal ROP cruise settings in the 4000 to 9000 MSL range and 2500 RPM (say 21 to 25 MAP), the timing is b= etween 24 and 26 DBTDC. At takeo= ff and low altitude race power settings (2760 -2600 RPM, WOT, 28-30 MAP), t= he timing is about 22-23 DBTDC. = At leaned idle/taxi power (<10" MAP, <1100 RPM) the timing is about 3= 4-35 DBTDC. At altitudes 10000- = 14000 MSL, 2500 RPM, WOT and LOP the timing= s are generally 29-31 DBTDC.
Scott Krueger
<= /FONT>
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