X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:16:55 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta31.charter.net ([216.33.127.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5022414 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:55:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.82; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp10 ([10.20.200.15]) by mta31.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20110616145509.MQPR3994.mta31.charter.net@imp10> for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:55:09 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([75.132.241.174]) by imp10 with smtp.charter.net id wev91g0043mUFT705ev9nd; Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:55:09 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=G6Q69DB3AUoJKS2BpLRaz8MQ2NORN7h5HRzrJMPOhRw= c=1 sm=1 a=VckafaJpPPoA:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=VxlS/kh5Y2KhHY/Xui1ATg==:17 a=gN2hqe_T5SfuilBrye0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EUes-9omvlv27y_aizQA:9 a=JKGghJMHJI7D-JQyonMA:7 a=VxlS/kh5Y2KhHY/Xui1ATg==:117 From: Terrence O'Neill Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-29--783572414 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Stall Speeds, Wing Cuffs, Vortex Generators for Lancair 4p X-Original-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:55:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <3D60830B-CD46-4AB4-B869-F00A3507DDC3@charter.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-29--783572414 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John, Respectfully suggest an AOA, and stop sweating the stall. Terrence O'Neill N211AL=20 L235/320 On Jun 16, 2011, at 6:24 AM, John Hafen wrote: > Ronald: >=20 > My IVP stalls clean at 76 kts clean, and 65 kts in landing = configuration. But I never get that slow. Or even close. I fly = downwind at 130, a very rounded base / transition to final at 120, and = approach at 110 on final, slowing down to 100 over the fence. >=20 > One of the things my bird did when I was doing the initial testing was = a 90 degree snap roll to the right when I stalled it (And I mean Snap!). = =46rom there, it's pretty easy to get into a spin. >=20 > I fly a 1500 foot pattern for a little extra safety, knowing that any = stall even at that altitude would be un-recoverable. >=20 > Eventually, I had the wings "indexed," and ended up lowering the = trailing edge of the right wing slightly perhaps 3/16th of an inch. It = now stalls straight ahead and I think my stall speeds were lowered = slightly because of that exercise. But it is still a squirrely stall = that seems very unnatural compared to other planes I've flown. it does = this weird yaw thing, maybe because of the small tail. >=20 > A 4P is not your father's Olsmobile, or a Cessna. I's not a good = plane to go slow and low for sight seeing. And 4P's are all different. = Not all of them are square. You're smart to test it out before you buy = to find a good one. >=20 > All of this said, I LOVE my plane. I love that it is fast. You just = have to know the machine to stay safe. >=20 > John Hafen > IVP 413AJ 300 hours >=20 > On Jun 15, 2011, at 5:24 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: >=20 > I know this is a sensitive subject but I just got a flight test review = back from a plane that I am thinking to buy and was a bit surprised = about the stall speeds that were in there. >=20 > What kind of stall speed (clean/50%/Dirty) do you have in your 4p? And = were you ever thinking of having it improved by Vortex Generators or = Wing cuff? >=20 > Thanks -- Ronald >=20 --Apple-Mail-29--783572414 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Ronald:

My = IVP stalls clean at 76 kts clean, and 65 kts in landing configuration. = But I never get that slow. Or even close. I fly = downwind at 130, a very rounded base / transition to final at 120, and = approach at 110 on final, slowing down to 100 over the = fence.

One of the things my bird did when I was doing = the initial testing was a 90 degree snap roll to the right when I = stalled it (And I mean Snap!). =46rom there, it's pretty easy to = get into a spin.

I fly a 1500 foot pattern for = a little extra safety, knowing that any stall even at that altitude = would be un-recoverable.

Eventually, I had the = wings "indexed," and ended up lowering the trailing edge of the right = wing slightly perhaps 3/16th of an inch. It now stalls straight = ahead and I think my stall speeds were lowered slightly because of that = exercise. But it is still a squirrely stall that seems very = unnatural compared to other planes I've flown. it does this weird = yaw thing, maybe because of the small tail.

A = 4P is not your father's Olsmobile, or a Cessna. I's not a good = plane to go slow and low for sight seeing. And 4P's are all = different. Not all of them are square. You're smart to test = it out before you buy to find a good one.

All = of this said, I LOVE my plane. I love that it is fast. You = just have to know the machine to stay safe.

John = Hafen
IVP 413AJ 300 hours

On Jun 15, = 2011, at 5:24 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: