X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:06:28 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.24] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5020745 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:47:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.24; envelope-from=j.hafen@comcast.net Received: from omta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.71]) by qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id w2kZ1g0041Y3wxoA22nDwj; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 02:47:13 +0000 Received: from [192.168.128.152] ([71.39.4.91]) by omta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id w2mX1g01k1xpSLv8b2mbXi; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 02:46:40 +0000 From: John Hafen Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--913657409 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future 4p owner. X-Original-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:47:04 -0700 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-3--913657409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Retards put the engine behind the plane. Just ask any Cessna 337 owner. = Ask them about the maintenance of having an engine behind you. Early aircraft designers liked the idea of putting the engine behind the = pilot, for visibility reasons. But everyone who crashed was killed by = the engine behind them coming forward and killing them on impact. John Hafen On Jun 14, 2011, at 4:56 AM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: Well, the velocity does climb fast with a high fuel flow (I did however = never put it higher as MP=3D36) and forgot the fuel flow. The plenum on = the velocity did kept it under 400 (and being under 400 is good on a = velocity, just bad for the engine, so you must count on a shorter life = for the cylinders). Cruising I was usually under 400 (but not by much), and I mixed ROP/LOP = flights (just what I felt like doing, sometimes wanted to feel that I = was going fast, and sometimes just saving money going the LOP route) The most of my heating problems were with the turbo's, LOP was hard on = them, the temps were then just under 1700 (1750 is max) and I never felt = comfortable with this, but when I was going ROP the temps on the turbo's = were lower (1650-1680) -- Ronald From: Colyn Case Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:48:09 -0400 To: Subject: [LML] Re: Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near = future 4p owner. The IVP will climb much faster but you have to have excellent cooling = and very high fuel flow to do it. George Braly did a seminar on = engine cooling back a few years which I think is captured here in the = archives somewhere. My main take-aways on cooling: you must have the = exhaust tunnel extensions and you must insure that cooling air is guided = around the bottom side of EVERY cylinder. The fuel flow specification = is in the TCM document but it ends up being 43+ gph at 38"/2700rpm. =20 Put all that together and you can climb 2000 fpm at 140 knots and still = be below 380 dF on the cylinders. Not many people feel comfortable = doing that though.... What power settings does a velocity need to do that? Colyn On Jun 13, 2011, at 7:50 AM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: > Wow, this was just a great answer, not based on emotions but just pure = calculations. Like to add that I have seen that a lot of 4p owners do = not go higher then 18000ft (VFR 17500), and that this might be also = because the climb does take a long time. >=20 > I have sit in a few Lancair 4p's now and one thing I noticed is that = the climb rate is not really that great. (1000-1400 fpm), while my old = velocity easy did 1800-2000fpm (but at 145 IAS). >=20 > Now I understand you guys go faster (+/- IAS 160) but climbing then to = Level 250 take about 23 min. (more or less, they never let you go = direct, right?) >=20 > Anybody has better numbers or better climb performance tips? >=20 > From: Colyn Case > Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:55:23 -0400 > To: > Subject: [LML] Winglets? And introducing myself as a very near future = 4p owner. >=20 > Another comment on winglets. >=20 > My theory is the most important speed is your SL speed. > Suppose you are flying 1350 nautical miles. > Westbound you have a 40 knot headwind at 5000 increasing to 100 knots = at fl200. > Eastbound let's say you get a 40 knot tailwind at fl200. (Doesn't it = usually work out that way?) >=20 > Someone offers you mod A that gives you 10 knots at 5000 or mod B that = gives you 10 knots at fl200. > ...and let's say your plane does 225 knots at 5000 unmodified. >=20 > mod A gives you 10/(225-40) or 5.4% improvement which you enjoy for = 6.9 hours > mod B gives you 10/(270+40) or 3.2% improvement which you enjoy for = 4.2 hours >=20 >=20 > So even if the winglets delivered performance up high they don't seem = like a very good deal. >=20 > Colyn >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 7, 2011, at 2:18 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote: >>=20 >>> Hello guys. >>> =20 >>> I like to introduce myself, I am 50, European/American, former = Cirrus >>> SR22 (1100 hours) and Velocity TXL5 (250 hours, just sold this = plane) >>> (total 1400 hours). >>> =20 >>> I am a future Lancair 4p owner (looking to buy one these weeks, so = if >>> you know someone who wants to sell his let me know) and looked at a = few >>> Lancair 4p already. >>> =20 >>> Now about the winglets (my first question); >>> Some planes I looked at had their winglets, some not. All those that = did not had one told me it doesn't do anything, the ones they had did = told me it works great, >>> more stability etc, even the CAFE report is telling that it produces >>> more stability at higher altitude. >>> =20 >>> But=85even the big Charlie Kohler told me it doesn't add anything = but more >>> drag...thus less speed. >>> =20 >>> I have no experience whatsoever with the Winglets. So my question to = you >>> guys is, do you have any experience telling you that it does work? = (this >>> is more for pilots who had both so they can tell the difference) >>> =20 >>> Thanks -- Ronald Stevens >>=20 >> =20 >> >=20 --Apple-Mail-3--913657409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
From: = Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net>Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List = <lml@lancaironline.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:48:09 = -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: Winglets? And = introducing myself as a very near future 4p = owner.

The = IVP will climb much faster but you have to have excellent cooling and = very high fuel flow to do it.    George Braly did a seminar on = engine cooling back a few years which I think is captured here in the = archives somewhere.   My main take-aways on cooling:   you = must have the exhaust tunnel extensions and you must insure that cooling = air is guided around the bottom side of EVERY cylinder.    The = fuel flow specification is in the TCM document but it ends up being 43+ = gph at 38"/2700rpm.   

Put all that = together and you can climb 2000 fpm at 140 knots and still be below 380 = dF on the cylinders.    Not many people feel comfortable doing = that though....

What power settings does a = velocity need to do = that?

Colyn

On Jun 13, = 2011, at 7:50 AM, RONALD STEVENS wrote:

Wow, this was just a = great answer, not based on emotions but just pure calculations. Like to = add that I have seen that a lot of 4p owners do not go higher then = 18000ft (VFR 17500), and that this might be also because the climb does = take a long time.

I have sit in a few Lancair = 4p's now and one thing I noticed is that the climb rate is not really = that great. (1000-1400 fpm), while my old velocity easy did 1800-2000fpm = (but at 145 IAS).

Now I understand you guys go = faster (+/- IAS 160) but climbing then to Level 250 take about 23 min. = (more or less, they never let you go direct, = right?)

Anybody has better numbers or better = climb performance tips?

From: = Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net>Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List = <lml@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:55:23 = -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Winglets? And = introducing myself as a very near future 4p = owner.

On Jun = 7, 2011, at 2:18 PM, RONALD STEVENS wrote:

Hello = guys.
 
I like to = introduce myself, I am 50, European/American, former Cirrus
SR22 (1100 = hours) and Velocity TXL5 (250 hours, just sold this plane)
(total 1400 hours).
 
I am a future = Lancair 4p owner (looking to buy one these weeks, so if
you know = someone who wants to sell his let me know) and looked at a few
Lancair 4p already.
 
Now about the = winglets (my first question);
Some planes I = looked at had their winglets, some not. All those that did not had one told me = it doesn't do anything, the ones they had did told me it works = great,
more stability = etc, even the CAFE report is telling that it produces
more stability = at higher altitude.
 
But=85even the = big Charlie Kohler told me it doesn't add anything but more
drag...thus = less speed.
 
I have no = experience whatsoever with the Winglets. So my question to you
guys is, do = you have any experience telling you that it does work? (this
is more for = pilots who had both so they can tell the difference)
 
Thanks -- = Ronald = Stevens
 
<= /div>
<glasair new pnt.jpg><AC = home after painting = 001.jpg>



= --Apple-Mail-3--913657409--