X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:42:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4999390 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 31 May 2011 14:47:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=indigoaviation@gmail.com Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so3178536fxm.25 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=xRmhLQMgelwKSt1f4FtgREoWp1szzWCgiqacOJVta4JOtNFespD1yn28NG8Rw+0qMM zfIjawKMEAJk06mnrwr1/clsUvfzgyXehHFKAslrVyrcMFFzdvc0b+NC7xQMnuc4Pwf0 V8bVmDHEGhusPKHraZl4UT8zeUNLVSurcvASw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.2.205 with SMTP id 13mr3514459fak.138.1306867639908; Tue, 31 May 2011 11:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.74.129 with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2011 11:47:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:47:19 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: L-IV Choice of Engine From: swaid rahn X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a8ef71f95004a496d562 --20cf3054a8ef71f95004a496d562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Ted, Is the engine you are talking about an EngineAir V8 or is it something new you have designed? We decided as a group (the owners and I) to remove the EngineAir V8 especially since the Doug Pohl's son Nick begged us not to use it. Nick is an A&P and would repair his fathers engine when it was broken, Doug was a doctor. Nick told me his father averaged an engine failure of some sorts about every 75 hours and had about 8 failures before he passed away. Doug died in his EngineAir V8 powered Lancair 4P after the engine quit on take off from the Pembroke Pines airport in Fl. We just did not have the warm fuzzy feeling for V8's after the above events. We removed it and sold it to another person with an EngineAir V8 in his Lancair 4P. He needed the gearbox because he had a broken shaft in his and the owner of the EngineAir V8 company had passed away. (See above). Ted, you are right about the fuel line not being the engine but it is part of the powerplant installation. Please use only aviation hoses and fittings on your installation, I think they are safer. I was told that Bud Warren had a fuel line problem and that it caused the death of him and his daughter. Bud told me a few years ago when I was talking to him at Sun-N-Fun that a fuel line caused him an engine failure in his Wheeler Express and it was a total loss after it burned. Good Luck with your test flight program, Swaid Rahn On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Ted Noel wrote: > Mark, > > I'm a doctor. I know that "safe" is a relative evaluation, even if > plaintiff's attorneys don't. 90% of all engine failures in aircraft may be > directly traced to the design compromises required by 1930's technology air > cooling. About 9% may be traced to 1930's magnetos. That leaves 1% for > "other." > > Those numbers are what drove me to liquid cooling. > > Ted > > > On 5/29/2011 4:47 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > > Ted, > > If you are of the belief that Lycoming or Continental are "safe" choices, > may I direct you to the FAA accident database? It is full of evidence to > the contrary. > > Thanks for mentioning the Fly Rotary group (www.flyrotary.com) > of which I have participated in since the mid 90's. A couple of other good > rotary sites are www.rotaryeng.net and www.rotaryaviation.com. There are > many flying examples of the rotary engine being a viable alternative engine. > While it is definitely not a plug-n-play solution and nor is it for > everyone, it has proven to be a reliable aircraft powerplant. But, as they > say, the devil's in the details. As with the Lycoming or Continental > options, I wouldn't call the rotary a totally "safe" choice either. A > broken oil line can ruin your day as quickly as a broken crankshaft. If you > address the peripheral systems, the engine itself is extremely robust. (My > 350hp peripheral-ported 3-rotor engine has only 4 moving parts, all of which > spin rather than stop and start, but that's a topic for another > posting.) The rotary has shown to be more than capable of producing very > high power in racing applications. In the Mazda series they typically run > the engines for one or two seasons without overhaul. The rotary is a very > tough little engine! > > Is the Lycoming engine "safer"? Maybe, maybe not. But if "safe" is the > target to which we aim, then we should all stay on the ground. > > Mark > Lancair ES, n/a 3-rotor > > -- Swaid L. Rahn Indigo Aviation, Inc. 940 Mock Road Springfield, Ga. 31329 Cell 912.655.0966 --20cf3054a8ef71f95004a496d562 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ted,
=A0Is the engine you are talking about an EngineAir V8 or is it someth= ing new you have designed? We decided as a group (the owners and I) to remo= ve the EngineAir V8 especially since the Doug Pohl's son Nick begged us= not to use it. Nick is an A&P and would repair his fathers engine when= it was broken, Doug was a doctor. Nick told me his father averaged an engi= ne failure of some sorts about every 75 hours and had about 8 failures befo= re he=A0passed away. Doug died in his EngineAir V8 powered Lancair 4P after= the engine quit on take off from the Pembroke Pines airport in Fl.
=A0We just did not have the warm fuzzy feeling for V8's after the = above events. We removed it and sold it to another person with an EngineAir= V8 in his Lancair 4P. He needed the gearbox because he had a broken shaft = in his and the owner of the EngineAir V8 company had passed away. (See abov= e).
=A0Ted, you are right about the fuel line not being the engine but it = is part of the powerplant installation. Please use only aviation hoses and = fittings on your installation, I think they are safer. I was told that Bud = Warren had a fuel line problem and that it caused the death of him and his = daughter. Bud told me a few years ago when I was talking to him at Sun-N-Fu= n that a fuel line caused him an engine=A0failure in his Wheeler Express an= d it was a total loss after it burned.
Good Luck with your test flight program,
Swaid Rahn
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Ted Noel <tednoel@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
Mark,

I'm a doctor. I = know that "safe" is a relative evaluation, even if plaintiff'= s attorneys don't.=A0 90% of all engine failures in aircraft may be dir= ectly traced to the design compromises required by 1930's technology ai= r cooling. About 9% may be traced to 1930's magnetos. That leaves 1% fo= r "other."

Those numbers are what drove me to liquid cooling.

Ted=20


On 5/29/2011 4:47 PM, Mark Steitle wrote:=20
Ted,=A0=20

If you are of the belief that Lycoming or Continental are "safe&q= uot; choices, may I direct you to the FAA accident database? =A0It is full = of evidence to the contrary.=A0

Thanks for mentioning the Fly Rotary group (www.flyrotary.com) of which I have parti= cipated in since the mid 90's. =A0A couple of other good rotary sites a= re www.rotaryeng.ne= t and www.= rotaryaviation.com. =A0There are many flying examples of the rotary eng= ine being a viable alternative engine. =A0While it is definitely not a plug= -n-play solution and nor is it for everyone, it has proven to be a reliable= aircraft powerplant. =A0But, as they say, the devil's in the details. = =A0As with the Lycoming or Continental options, I wouldn't call the rot= ary a totally "safe" choice either. =A0A broken oil line can ruin= your day as quickly as a broken crankshaft. =A0If you address the peripher= al systems, the engine itself is extremely robust. =A0(My 350hp peripheral-= ported 3-rotor engine has only 4 moving parts, all of which spin rather tha= n stop and start, but that's a topic for another posting.)=A0=A0The rot= ary has shown to be more than capable of producing very high power in racin= g applications. =A0In the Mazda series they typically run the engines for o= ne or two seasons without overhaul. =A0The rotary is a very tough little en= gine!

Is the Lycoming engine "safer"? =A0Maybe, maybe not. =A0But = if "safe" is the target to which we aim, then we should all stay = on the ground.=A0=A0

Mark=A0
Lancair ES, n/a 3-rotor



--
Swaid L. Rahn
Indigo Aviation, Inc.<= br>940 Mock Road
Springfield, Ga. 31329
Cell 912.655.0966


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