X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 09:33:27 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4999062 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 31 May 2011 09:30:03 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.145; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.2]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p4VDTNH0018167 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 09:29:23 -0400 Received: from [10.67.72.99] (mobile-166-137-141-144.mycingular.net [166.137.141.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 91CDEE0000F4; Tue, 31 May 2011 09:29:21 -0400 (EDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8C148) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--23636388 X-Original-Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8C148) From: Jeff Edwards Subject: Re: [LML] Optimum IO-550 oil level - zero oil pressure event X-Original-Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:29:17 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:479576352:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29024de4ed311a7e X-AOL-IP: 166.137.141.144 --Apple-Mail-2--23636388 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fred, Doesn't matter what Lycoming says... It's a TCM engine. 5 quarts sounds low f= or normal operation.=20 Jeff=20 On May 31, 2011, at 7:16 AM, "Frederick Moreno" wrote: > We have been over this issue in the past, and I have reviewed the archives= , but with a lot of new Legacies flying, it is time to ask the question: wha= t is the optimum oil level for the IO-550? > =20 > The reason I ask is that I had an incident during final when my MVP 50 eng= ine monitor lit up the red Master Warning light on a two mile final and I go= t voice alerts from the Chelton and the engine monitor: "Check Engine" and "= Check oil pressure." A check of the oil pressure on the engine monitor show= ed a big red zero. This went on for a few seconds, then the alarm went off,= then it went on and off several times. > =20 > Taxiing back on the runway I twice hit the brakes, first while moving fair= ly slowly and second while moving faster, but holding engine RPM constant (a= bout 900 RM according to the data). Both times the oil pressure sagged mome= ntarily (but not low enough to trigger an alarm). > =20 > I downloaded the engine monitor data and sure enough the oil pressure drop= ped to zero for several seconds, then went up and down to zero several times= , total elapsed time of 37 seconds. I downloaded and studied the data for t= he entire flight and found an oil pressure sag while taxiing out for take of= f when I braked before the U turn at the end of the runway, but not low enou= gh for an alarm. I also found an oil pressure sag (not low enough to trip t= he alarm) during deceleration during landing roll out. > =20 > I had another engineer in the right seat who watched all of this. We exam= ined the data traces. None of it looked like an electrical intermittent on= the oil pressure sensor which is mounted on the fire wall. Our conclusion:= we had sucked air. > =20 > We check oil pressure at every stop. During a multi-stop long cross count= ry in March, we landed with as little as 5 quarts after some long legs. The= engine has about 30 hours on it since overhaul, and is still breaking in, b= ut we have never seen an oil alarm even with some severe test flying (steep d= epartures and descents as well as hard braking during short field practice).= > =20 > Sump capacity is 8 quarts although the dip stick goes up to 12. We normal= ly run at 6 quarts since prior experience is that more than 6 quarts blows o= il out the breather an on to the belly. After shutdown we measured approxim= ately 5 quarts on the dip stick. A day later it still read 5 quarts. (For r= eference, I found that Lycoming says the absolute minimum is 2 quarts, but = Cirrus recommends a minimum of 6 on the IO-550N, same engine. Presumably t= here is allowance for oil loss during flight with the Cirrus numbers.) I pu= t a piece of welding rod down the dipstick hole, and found the oil to be jus= t shy of 2 inches deep in the pan. The dipstick comes to within about 0.4 i= nches of the bottom of the pan. We measured the oil pan and then calculated= the oil volume based on the area and depth of oil, and came up with about 5= .5 quarts. We had also checked the dipstick at the last oil change, and whi= le not perfect, it checked reasonably well with the oil as we added it quart= by quart. > =20 > Since the oil pressure alarm was on and off for 37 seconds, we pulled the= engine for a full inspection. Current guess work suggests something wrong i= n the oil pump pick up area. The engine is under warranty, so I am driving= it up to the shop and we will disassemble it while we are all present and w= atching. > =20 > So, again, what are you IO-550 guys using for normal oil level, and when d= o you add oil? What oil stories can others tell? > =20 > Curious Fred=20 --Apple-Mail-2--23636388 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Fred,

Doesn't m= atter what Lycoming says... It's a TCM engine. 5 quarts sounds low for no= rmal operation. 

Jeff 
<= br>On May 31, 2011, at 7:16 AM, "Frederick Moreno" <frederickmoreno@bigpond.com> wrote:

=
We have been over this issue in the past, and I have reviewed the archi= ves, but with a lot of new Legacies flying, it is time to ask the question: w= hat is the optimum oil level for the IO-550?
 
The reason I ask is that I had an incident during final when my MVP 50 e= ngine monitor lit up the red Master Warning light on a two mile final a= nd I got voice alerts from the Chelton and the engine monitor: "Check Engine= " and "Check oil pressure."  A check of the oil pressure on the engine m= onitor showed a big red zero.  This went on for a few seconds, then&nbs= p;the alarm went off, then it went on and off several times.
 
Taxiing back on the runway I twice hit the brakes, first while moving f= airly slowly and second while moving faster, but holding engine RPM constant= (about 900 RM according to the data).  Both times the oil pressure sag= ged momentarily (but not low enough to trigger an alarm).
 
I downloaded the engine monitor data and sure enough the oil pressure d= ropped to zero for several seconds, then went up and down to zero several ti= mes, total elapsed time of 37 seconds.  I downloaded and studied the da= ta for the entire flight and found an oil pressure sag while taxiing out for= take off when I braked before the U turn at the end of the runway, but not l= ow enough for an alarm.  I also found an oil pressure sag (not low enou= gh to trip the alarm) during deceleration during landing roll out.
 
I had another engineer in the right seat who watched all of this. = We examined the  data traces.  None of it looked like an electric= al intermittent on the oil pressure sensor which is mounted on the fire wall= .  Our conclusion: we had sucked air.
 
We check oil pressure at every stop.  During a multi-stop long cro= ss country in March, we landed with as little as 5 quarts after some long le= gs.  The engine has about 30 hours on it since overhaul, and is still b= reaking in, but we have never seen an oil alarm even with some severe test f= lying (steep departures and descents as well as hard braking during sho= rt field practice).
 
Sump capacity is 8 quarts although the dip stick goes up to 12.&nb= sp; We normally run at 6 quarts since prior experience is that more tha= n 6 quarts blows oil out the breather an on to the belly.  After shutdo= wn we measured approximately 5 quarts on the dip stick.  A day later it= still read 5 quarts.  (For reference, I found that Lycoming says the&n= bsp; absolute minimum is 2 quarts, but  Cirrus  recommen= ds a minimum of 6 on the IO-550N, same engine.  Presumably there is all= owance for oil loss during flight with the Cirrus numbers.)  I put a pi= ece of welding rod down the dipstick hole, and found the oil to be just shy o= f 2 inches deep in the pan.  The dipstick comes to within about 0.4 inc= hes of the bottom of the pan.  We measured the oil pan and then calcula= ted the oil volume based on the area and depth of oil, and came up with abou= t 5.5 quarts.  We had also checked the dipstick at the last oil change,= and while not perfect, it checked reasonably well with the oil as we added i= t quart by quart.
 
Since the oil pressure alarm was on and off for 37 seconds, w= e  pulled the engine for a full inspection. Current guess work suggests= something wrong in the oil pump pick up area.   The engine is und= er warranty, so I am driving it up to the shop and we will disassemble it wh= ile we are all present and watching.
 
So, again, what are you IO-550 guys using for normal oil level, an= d when do you add oil?  What oil stories can others tell?
 
Curious Fred 
= --Apple-Mail-2--23636388--