X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 10:27:52 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with SMTP id 4590249 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:01:20 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.97; envelope-from=randylsnarr@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.64] by nm27.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2010 05:00:45 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.38] by tm4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2010 05:00:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1038.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2010 05:00:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 599060.4203.bm@omp1038.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 2206 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Nov 2010 05:00:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xIuWlXofVOGNbtYM/611BYzHNk0Wit3n8sbphva+L3ZTgaMC4WnyuiU5eKl3OqO+mSbVae/wfNrWwksM5UrUNwvCVsNTww5cGv06Suv8iVIYlt+DCQZl8gPysSFdF4HTJsjyeAis1KPivlW7wwCNGTXf7ijBOQo5Cxe5LoOeHMY=; X-Original-Message-ID: <227515.2176.qm@web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: r41oaY8VM1kmdsOlmjOzWAJ3srNfvahewxlppqFqtjZPuYL Ar54XbETGhL5QmqJt4C0DBhZXLSuR2rPvtJ25dbOcF86XjZMgFbJuwa48luG qoPJJQnRqAiUI_67pFSdyUoIqTmgNzE_RrVjfocNLbIlrDjiswjqInlwgBhn EX0D6F.kmaCc89ZP0LTS6suVtYa6sgl7q2q67P2Rh6NxXoeAFGilibU2E7Fg id1_TYd4g6PtPgbIL7trfy49aapHJszPsxiNQS7pujEvRHVAJQ2SoLAmG4cK madMGmkzhaVt3ZOs0bDfpmtZxwi4pvpqdmmgtGPIttQF3fUwGthhn30QPwRs NxiLNciZE4qbhnj6Xd1VfGRqjqhKhmyeTEjVoAZWz9lQG0A-- Received: from [12.50.162.130] by web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:00:44 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.4.9 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 X-Original-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: randy snarr Subject: Re: [LML] Re: efficiency X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-216206618-1290574844=:2176" --0-216206618-1290574844=:2176 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If I recall it was between 2000 and 2100 rpm between 6-19 MAP. Randy., "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if n= ot utterly impossible" -Simon Newcomb, 1902 --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Bill Hannahan wrote: From: Bill Hannahan Subject: [LML] Re: efficiency To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 9:42 AM Thanks Terrence, =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0APower settings after takeoff ranged from cruise climb at= =0A1900 x 20 inches to 1750 x 18 inches in cruise to 1550 x 15 inches in de= scent.=20 What power settings did you use Randy? I noticed you were=C2=A0 quite a bit= faster.=20 I=0Aleaned until the leanest cylinder began to misfire, then enriched sligh= tly. At these=0Alow rpm=E2=80=99s the fuel has plenty of time to burn with = the factory timing. =0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0AThe fuel mixture distribution is po= or at part throttle; a=0Awell calibrated injection system would probably gi= ve significant improvement=0Aunder race conditions.=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0AIn n= ormal cross country flying I go high with the throttle=0Aabout a half inch = off wide open which results in all four egt=E2=80=99s peaking at the=0Asame= time, with no loss of MP. FI would probably not offer much improvement in= =0Athat environment.=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0AA higher compression ratio and EI w= ould probably help significantly=0Aat high altitude. If I were doing it aga= in I would go with 9.5:1 and red line=0AMP at 25 inches, even on takeoff.= =20 At my home base, Longmont =0A CO , 5050=0Amsl, I see 22 inches on takeoff a= nd =C2=A0use 1800-2500 feet of runway=0Adepending on weight and density alt= itude.=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0ABy the way, at these low rpm=E2=80=99s you need t= o check that you=0Aare not flying with the prop on the high pitch stop. It = is a bit like trying to=0Acrank your power steering past full lock. The gov= ernor has a relief valve,=0A350-400 psi, but you do not want to be on that = continuously. So pull the rpm=0Aback about 50 below your set point, then ba= ck to the set point. If it is on the=0Astop the rpm will not pull down. If = you accelerate in descent check it again. =0A=0ARegards, Bill Hannahan =20 wfhannahan@yahoo.com --- On Mon, 11/22/10, Terrence O'Neill wrote: From: Terrence O'Neill Subject: [LML] Re: efficiency To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 4:05 PM Zowie! =C2=A0What power settings did you use for that, Bill?You had to have= matching EGTs... how did you do that? TerrenceL235/320 N211AL On Nov 21, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Bill Hannahan wrote: =0A=0APlease excuse a little bragging. =C2=A0Steve Alderman and I flew my L= ancair 360 to the Copperstate=0Afly-in SW of Phoenix and competed in the Fu= elventure efficiency competition. =C2=A0The planes are weighed with fuel on= board. Payload [pilot=0Apassenger and baggage, up to 200 lb per seat] is we= ighed separately. =C2=A0The planes fly around a 383 mile course. Timing is = from=0Aliftoff to overflight of midfield on return from the course. The pla= nes and=0Apayload are weighed on return to determine the mass of fuel burne= d. =C2=A0The score is calculated using the latest CAF=C3=89 formula; =C2=A0= Caf=C3=A9 score equals payload raised to the 0.7 power, times,=0Amiles per = gallon, times, average speed in mph raised to the 1.7 power. =C2=A0This for= mula puts a strong emphasis on speed, reflecting=0Areality in the evaluatio= n of cross country aircraft. =C2=A0Steve is an experienced CAF=C3=89 racer = having obtained a remarkably=0Ahigh level of performance from his KR2 under= an earlier CAFE formula. He even=0Aoutperformed Lance Neibauer flying the = first Lancair 235. =C2=A0http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_cafe400/86CA= FE400.pdf=0A =C2=A0Steve let me know when I was a degree or two off course = and=0Akept track of our ground speed and true airspeed. =C2=A0Our average s= peed around the course was 188.9 mph at 36.58=0AMPG, [5.16 GPH] =C2=A0Our C= AF=C3=89 score was 1,223,333.2=C2=A0=C2=A0 second to Klaus Savier=E2=80=99s= highly developed=0AVariEze. =C2=A0http://www.fuelventure.org/documents/20= 10_results.html =C2=A0To my knowledge it is the highest CAF=C3=89 score by = a Lancair using=0Athe latest formula. =C2=A0The engine is a stock Lycoming = 360 A1A, with 8.5:1=0Acompression ratio, two magnetos and a carburetor, swi= nging a Hartzell prop.=0AEmpty weight is 1,015 pounds. =C2=A0Steve is build= ing a Lancair 360 of his own, and plans to=0Akick my a## next year. =C2=A0= It is good fun, a test of planning and flying skills, and a=0Agreat way to = meet a group of friendly, interesting, like minded people. I=0Arecommend th= at everybody give it a try.=0A=0A=0A=0A Regards, Bill Hannahan =20 wfhannahan@yahoo.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =20 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A --0-216206618-1290574844=:2176 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If I recall it was between 2000 and 2100 rpm = between 6-19 MAP.
Randy.,

"Fl= ight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not = utterly impossible"
-Simon Newcomb, 1902

--- On Tue, 11= /23/10, Bill Hannahan <wfhannahan@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Bill Hannahan <wfhannahan@yahoo.com><= br>Subject: [LML] Re: efficiency
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Tues= day, November 23, 2010, 9:42 AM


=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Thanks Terrence,

=0A=0A=0A=0A

Power settings after takeoff ranged from cr= uise climb at=0A1900 x 20 inches to 1750 x 18 inches in cruise to 1550 x 15= inches in descent.


What power settings did you use Randy? I not= iced you were  quite a bit faster.


I=0Aleaned until the lea= nest cylinder began to misfire, then enriched slightly. At these=0Alow rpm= =E2=80=99s the fuel has plenty of time to burn with the factory timing. =0A=0A

 

=0A=0A

The fuel mixture distribution is poor at part throttle;= a=0Awell calibrated injection system would probably give significant impro= vement=0Aunder race conditions.

=0A=0A

 

=0A=0A

In normal cross count= ry flying I go high with the throttle=0Aabout a half inch off wide open whi= ch results in all four egt=E2=80=99s peaking at the=0Asame time, with no lo= ss of MP. FI would probably not offer much improvement in=0Athat environmen= t.

=0A=0A

 

=0A=0A

A higher compression ratio and EI would probably= help significantly=0Aat high altitude. If I were doing it again I would go= with 9.5:1 and red line=0AMP at 25 inches, even on takeoff.


At = my home base, Longmont =0A CO , 5050=0Amsl, I see 22 inches on takeoff and =  use 1800-2500 feet of runway=0Adepending on weight and density altitu= de.

=0A=0A

 

=0A=0A

By the way, at these low rpm=E2=80=99s you need = to check that you=0Aare not flying with the prop on the high pitch stop. It= is a bit like trying to=0Acrank your power steering past full lock. The go= vernor has a relief valve,=0A350-400 psi, but you do not want to be on that= continuously. So pull the rpm=0Aback about 50 below your set point, then b= ack to the set point. If it is on the=0Astop the rpm will not pull down. If= you accelerate in descent check it again.


=0A=0A
Regards,
Bill Hannahan


--- On Mon, 11/22/10, Terrence O'Neill <troneill@ch= arter.net> wrote:

From: Terrence= O'Neill <troneill@charter.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: efficiency
T= o: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 4:05 PM
Zowie!  What power settings did= you use for that, Bill?
You had to have matching EGTs... how did you d= o that?

Terrence
L235/320 N211AL


On Nov 21, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Bill Hannahan wr= ote:

=

Please excuse = a little bragging.

&nbs= p;

Steve Alderman and I = flew my Lancair 360 to the Copperstate=0Afly-in SW of Phoenix and competed = in the Fuelventure efficiency competition.

 

The planes are weighed with fuel onboard. Payload [pilot=0Apassenger and= baggage, up to 200 lb per seat] is weighed separately.

 

The planes fly around a 383 mile course. Timing is from=0Al= iftoff to overflight of midfield on return from the course. The planes and= =0Apayload are weighed on return to determine the mass of fuel burned.

<= p class=3D"yiv254291127yiv1041121979MsoNormal">  

The score is calculated using the latest CAF= =C3=89 formula;

 <= /p>

Caf=C3=A9 score equals p= ayload raised to the 0.7 power, times,=0Amiles per gallon, times, average s= peed in mph raised to the 1.7 power.

 

Thi= s formula puts a strong emphasis on speed, reflecting=0Areality in the eval= uation of cross country aircraft.

 

Steve = is an experienced CAF=C3=89 racer having obtained a remarkably=0Ahigh level= of performance from his KR2 under an earlier CAFE formula. He even=0Aoutpe= rformed Lance Neibauer flying the first Lancair 235.

 

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/p= df_cafe_cafe400/86CAFE400.pdf=0A

 

Ste= ve let me know when I was a degree or two off course and=0Akept track of ou= r ground speed and true airspeed.

 

Our av= erage speed around the course was 188.9 mph at 36.58=0AMPG, [5.16 GPH]

<= p class=3D"yiv254291127yiv1041121979MsoNormal">  

Our CAF=C3=89 score was 1,223,333.2   second to Klaus Savier=E2=80=99s highly develop= ed=0AVariEze.

 

http://www.fuelventure.org/documents/2010_results.html

 

To my knowledge it is the highest CAF=C3=89 score by a= Lancair using=0Athe latest formula.

 

The= engine is a stock Lycoming 360 A1A, with 8.5:1=0Acompression ratio, two ma= gnetos and a carburetor, swinging a Hartzell prop.=0AEmpty weight is 1,015 = pounds.

 

Steve is building a Lancair 360 = of his own, and plans to=0Akick my a## next year.

 

It is good fun, a test of planning and flying skills, and a=0Agr= eat way to meet a group of friendly, interesting, like minded people. I=0Ar= ecommend that everybody give it a try.

=0A=0A=0A=0A
Regards,
Bill Hannahan

=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A <= /blockquote>

=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-216206618-1290574844=:2176--