X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:57:11 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail.bbsyd.dk ([89.184.128.195] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4395091 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:20:08 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=89.184.128.195; envelope-from=tj@yacht-pool.dk Received: from TIM (unknown [95.154.58.204]) by mail.bbsyd.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3376D5CC71A for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:19:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Original-Message-ID: <57420004B4284967B94B7F0823608B37@TIM> From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Tim_J=F8rgensen?= X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Small tail, MK II tail, CG range X-Original-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:19:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01CB24B7.3BF099F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CB24B7.3BF099F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christian. Short answer: Flaps faired with fillets is -7 deg. ON A 320/360/390. Your flaps should = be aligned with the fillets in cruise. This is pointed out clearly in = the manual.=20 On the old 235, flaps faired with fillets is 0 deg., so the flaps = actually retract ABOVE the fillets in cruise. The empennage is also some = 8" shorter than ours. Best regards Tim Jorgensen 360 Gamma (MKIIFBOB) 90% ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christian Meier=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Small tail, MK II tail, CG range I have a 320 big tail long engine mount with an IO-390 where I use the = extended mac from 15% to 11% CG =3D FS 22,8in. - FS 30,3in. in my case 158,08 cm =96 177,03 cm (FS = 0 =3D Firewall rear)=20 (Handbook and manual show different numbers of FS )=20 Pilot only I'm near mac 11% in this case the plane want's to take off = with nosegear last. The plane performs well with the extended CG. I never tested extended = rear CG. Having an heavy engine and battery fwd firewall I can't even reach the = rear CG of 30.3"=20 Also at take-off-weight 850kg I can't reach rear CG. Find My W&B below, sorry all metric. There is still something I did not fully understand. Where is flap 0=B0 and +7=B0 compared to the fuselarge wing-fillet. Actually I use the fillet as 0=B0 as found in the plan's I have serial# 768=20 Christian www.lancair.at ltr Net wt (kg) Moment arm Moment wt Station (cm)=20 Nose gear 209,85 85,60 17963,16 =20 LH gear 164,35 199,50 32787,83 =20 RH gear 163,25 199,50 32568,38 =20 test1 0,00 117,00 0,00 =20 test2 0,00 210,00 0,00 =20 test3 test4 0,00 =20 Empty CG 537,45 811,60 83319,36 155,03=20 =20 =20 max. fwd CG =20 Plane 537,45 =20 Pilot 55,00 210,00 11550,00 =20 Header full 40,00 28,80 117,00 3369,60 =20 Test1 0,00 310,00 0,00 =20 Test2 0,00 90,00 0,00 =20 Test3 0,00 247,00 0,00 =20 Max fwd CG 621,25 98238,96 158,13=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 max. aft CG =20 Plane 537,45 =20 Pilot 75 210 15750 =20 Co Pilot 75 210 15750 =20 Header 1/2 full 20 14,4 117 1684,8 =20 Wing LH 23 16,56 198 3278,88 =20 Wing RH 23 16,56 198 3278,88 =20 Luggage 30 290 8700 =20 Max aft CG 764,97 131761,92 172,24=20 max 765 max177,03=20 On Issue No.1, 1st QTR 99, page 8, you'll find the following article: = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D LANCAIR 320/360 CG LIMITS Recently both Orin, with his MK-II tail and Doug, with his standard = tail configured 320 performed some flight tests with adjusted fwd CG's. Basically, they flew with a slightly forward CG to define how much = farther forward acceptable flight and most importantly, flair to a landing = could be maintained. the standard, smaller tailed 320's played out a little = sooner but a fwd limit of 11% worked quite nicely. both reported good = authority at the flair and enhanced stability as they moved the CG forward. This = 11% of MAC should be considered since it offers greater overall CG travel = before getting too far aft-which is ofcourse, something to be avoided. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CB24B7.3BF099F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christian.
Short answer:
 
Flaps faired with fillets is -7 deg. ON = A=20 320/360/390. Your flaps should be aligned with the fillets in=20 cruise. This is pointed out clearly in the = manual. 
 
On the old 235, flaps faired with = fillets is 0=20 deg., so the flaps actually retract ABOVE the fillets in cruise. The = empennage=20 is also some 8" shorter than ours.
 
Best regards
Tim Jorgensen
360 Gamma (MKIIFBOB) 90%
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Christian = Meier=20
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 = 5:30=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Small tail, = MK II=20 tail, CG range

I have a 320 big tail long engine mount with an IO-390 = where I=20 use the extended mac from 15% to 11%
CG =3D FS 22,8in. - FS 30,3in. in my case 158,08 cm =96 177,03 cm=20  (FS 0 =3D Firewall=20 rear) 
(Handbook and manual show different numbers of FS ) 
Pilot only I'm near mac 11%  in this case the plane want's = to take=20 off with nosegear last.
The plane performs well with the extended CG. I never tested = extended=20 rear CG.
Having an heavy engine and battery fwd firewall I can't even = reach the=20 rear CG of 30.3" 
Also at take-off-weight 850kg I can't reach rear CG.
Find My W&B below, sorry all metric.

There is still something I did not fully understand.
Where is flap 0=B0 and +7=B0 compared to the fuselarge = wing-fillet.
Actually I use the fillet as 0=B0 as found in the plan's
I have serial# 768 

Christian

ltr Net wt (kg) Moment arm Moment wt Station (cm)
Nose gear 209,85 85,60 17963,16
LH gear 164,35 199,50 32787,83
RH gear 163,25 199,50 32568,38
test1 0,00 117,00 0,00
test2 0,00 210,00 0,00
test3 test4 0,00
Empty CG 537,45 811,60 83319,36 155,03
max. fwd CG
Plane 537,45
Pilot 55,00 210,00 11550,00
Header full 40,00 28,80 117,00 3369,60
Test1 0,00 310,00 0,00
Test2 0,00 90,00 0,00
Test3 0,00 247,00 0,00
Max fwd CG 621,25 98238,96 158,13





=
max. aft CG
Plane 537,45
Pilot 75 210 15750
Co Pilot 75 210 15750
Header 1/2 full 20 14,4 117 1684,8
Wing LH 23 16,56 198 3278,88
Wing RH 23 16,56 198 3278,88
Luggage 30 290 8700
Max aft CG 764,97 131761,92 172,24
max 765 max177,03

On Issue No.1, 1st QTR = 99, page=20 8,
you'll find the following = article:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
LANCAIR 320/360 CG = LIMITS
Recently both Orin, with = his MK-II=20 tail and Doug, with his standard tail
configured 320 performed = some=20 flight tests with adjusted fwd CG's.
Basically, they flew with = a=20 slightly forward CG to define how much farther
forward acceptable flight = and most=20 importantly, flair to a landing could be
maintained. the standard, = smaller=20 tailed 320's played out a little sooner
but a fwd limit of 11% = worked quite=20 nicely. both reported good authority at
the flair and enhanced = stability as=20 they moved the CG forward. This 11% of
MAC should be considered = since it=20 offers greater overall CG travel before
getting too far aft-which = is=20 ofcourse, something to be avoided.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


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