X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:23:50 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4383715 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:14:08 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.97; envelope-from=cfi@instructor.net Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o67EDBxE001040 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 10:13:11 -0400 Received: from cfi@instructor.net by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.e95.37605fb (37127) for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 10:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.103]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA021-b2d04c348b6d19c; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:13:05 -0400 Received: from web-mmc-m08 (web-mmc-m08.sim.aol.com [64.12.224.141]) by smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYME027-b2d04c348b6d19c; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:13:01 -0400 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: My Friend's iPad experience iin the Cockpit X-Original-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:13:00 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 72.40.60.15 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: cfi@instructor.net X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CCEBF5A45B1A24_1568_2ADD_web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: Mail.com Webmail 32213-STANDARD Received: from 72.40.60.15 by web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com (64.12.224.141) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:13:00 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CCEBF5A44F3344-1568-1502@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: cfi@instructor.net ----------MB_8CCEBF5A45B1A24_1568_2ADD_web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is no "realtime" weather when in flight. The only time you can get= weather display is when receiving a 3G signal (if you subscribe) or WiFi,= and you can't get either in flight. The iPad will display nexrad, clou= ds, pireps, sigmets/airmets, winds etc but it's not XM weather. XM requi= res a separate receiver and antenna and it's not interfaced as of yet with= the iPad. I'm sure it won't be long before you'll be able to get infligh= t XM weather on the iPad though. Ron =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Liegner, MD To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wed, Jul 7, 2010 9:32 am Subject: [LML] Re: My Friend's iPad experience iin the Cockpit Can one display realtime XM weather (specifically NEXRAD summary)on the iP= ad in flight? I currently do this on AnyWhereMap. Jeff For no additional cost ForeFlight allowsyou to load the program on your iP= hone too. With those two plus the696, I'm finally paperless. Ron On Jul 5, 2010, at 8:04 PM, John Hafen wrote: I second the iPad report below. I got the iPad in hopes of having a greatelectronic approach plate reader.= In that alone, it is worth theinvestment, rather than having to do paper= updates to 4+ binders ofJeppesen plates every couple of weeks. So I'm happy with the iPad andForeFlight, just as a plate reader. The moving map capability is an addedbonus. One can track present positio= n on a VFR Sectional or IFRenroute chart. If you take a second to key in= a route, a littleblue plane flies down that purple route and tracks progr= ess with onlyGPS input (Wi-Fi and Cellular data in the iPad "Settings"turn= ed off before takeoff). In addition to a present positionand moving map= (that you can pinch zoom and finger around), you getGroundspeed, GPS alti= tude, and Track. AND, I still (at least for the timebeing) carry current PAPER approach pla= tes for key airports along theroute of flight. Just in case. On the ground with Wi-Fi or Cell Dataaccess, the weather charts (Satellite= , Radar, Flight Rules, Wind,Visibility, Ceiling, Sky Coverage, Temperature= , Dew point spread, andLightening) provide a pretty darn good real time su= pplement to theinfo you get from 1800 WX BRIEF. John Hafen IVP 413AJ On Jul 5, 2010, at 5:51 AM, JeffreyLiegner, MD wrote: This is a report from a Malibu pilotfriend... I got an iPAD about a week and a halfago. Yesterday was my first experienc= e to use it in the cockpit. Iflew from MMU to Kendall Tamiami. I downloade= d the the latestForeflight app V3.5.1 and all the sectionals, approach pla= tes, lowaltitude charts and high altitude charts for the easternseaboard. =20 I have to admit it was surprising howwell the touch screen interface works= to make using the charts easy. The speed of changing screens also helps= as well as the pinch-touchzoom to allow scaling and moving around the cha= rts. The firstelectronic chart reader that actually makes them easier to= usethan paper. I have all the same charts on my panel mount GarminGMX200.= But they are much harder to use because of the smallerscreen(6.5" diag)= and the lack of a easy user interface. The approach plates are almost thesame size as paper so they are easy to= use. =20 I haven't used it to file flightplans yet but the couple of times I tried= to fill out the mandatoryfields I flubbed it up because one of my fingers= touched the screenoutside of the virtual keyboard area and the pop up win= dow causing thewindow to close without saving the data already entered. So= metimes thetouch screen is too sensitive. =20 The screen brightness is adequate evenin direct sunlight. The auto brightn= ess stinks. I don't know how Applewould release a product with auto bright= ness that works sopoorly. =20 Some of the other short comings: Ihave used Jeppesen approach plates for= the last 20 years. They aren'tavailable yet. I like them much more than= the government approachplates. That is why the pros use them. Jepps says= their iPad plateswill be out soon but they will probably cost an arm and= a leg comparedto the Foreflight subscription. =20 The biggest drawback is that the iPadis on the AT&T network. I subscribed= to their data service. The 3Gis available at my house in NJ. But so far= only EDGE in Lake Placidand in Key Largo. I will probably have the same= problem in theOuterbanks and many other places I will go to. So whentrave= ling I connect it via WiFi to my Verizon 3G to WiFi routerwhich has my Ver= izon aircard as the back haul. Like the VISAcommercial, Verizon's 3G servi= ce is available everywhere you want tobe. =20 AT&T's EDGE service I found isslower than dial up. Its painfully slow. =20 The moving map works surprisingly wellconsidering the single channel GPS= receiver in it. But in my airplaneyou have to hold the iPAD close to the= windshield or the side windowto see enough satellites for it to work. If= you do place it to havegood views of the satellites it position andaltitude it agrees very well with my Garmin 430W =20 Like any cellular device don't expectits 3G/Edge service to work once you= are more than a few thousand feetup. So you better have everything you ne= ed downloaded into it anddon't expect any weather updates in flight. =20 An important little trick I foundis not to turn airplane mode on. Turning= airplane mode on seems toturn off not only the WiFi and cellular radios= but also the GPSreceiver. So I leave airplane mode off and turn off the= WiFi andCellular receivers from the settings menu to conserve batterylife= . =20 I'm not wetting my pants over it butthe iPAD is a damn good EFB. Beside th= at it does a number of thingsvery well such as a book reader. The electron= ic version of the WSJ isalso surprisingly easy to read on it, as well as= many otherapps. =20 The problem is what happens if it goestits up on you. What are you gonna= have as a backup? All the same oldpaper stuff? It has already froze up twice on metwice while installing an app. The equi= valent 3 finger windows saluteis to turn it off and reboot it again. Fortu= nately it does that fairlyquickly. =20 Feel free to share thisreport. =20 Greg =20 ----------MB_8CCEBF5A45B1A24_1568_2ADD_web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" There is no "realtime" weather when in flight.  = ; The only time you can get weather display is when receiving a 3G signal= (if you subscribe) or WiFi, and you can't get either in flight. &nbs= p;  The iPad will display nexrad, clouds, pireps, sigmets/airmets, wi= nds etc but it's not XM weather.   XM requires a separate receiver an= d antenna and it's not interfaced as of yet with the iPad.  I'm sure= it won't be long before you'll be able to get inflight XM weather on the= iPad though.

Ron




Can one display realtime XM weather (specifically NEXRAD summary) on the iPad in flight? I currently do this on AnyWhere Map.

Jeff


For no additional cost ForeFlight allows you to load the program on your iPhone too. With those two plus the 696, I'm finally paperless.

Ron

On Jul 5, 2010, at 8:04 PM, John Hafen <j.hafen@comcast.net> wrote:
I second the iPad report below.

I got the iPad in hopes of having a great electronic approach plate reader.  In that alone, it is worth the investment, rather than having to do paper updates to 4+ binders of Jeppesen plates every couple of weeks.

So I'm happy with the iPad and ForeFlight, just as a plate reader.

The moving map capability is an added bonus.  One can track present position on a VFR Sectional or IFR enroute chart.  If you take a second to key in a route, a little blue plane flies down that purple route and tracks progress with only GPS input (Wi-Fi and Cellular data in the iPad "Settings" turned off before takeoff).  In addition to a present position and moving map (that you can pinch zoom and finger around), you get Groundspeed, GPS altitude, and Track.

AND, I still (at least for the time being) carry current PAPER approach plates for key airports along the route of flight.  Just in case.

On the ground with Wi-Fi or Cell Data access, the weather charts (Satellite, Radar, Flight Rules, Wind, Visibility, Ceiling, Sky Coverage, Temperature, Dew point spread, and Lightening) provide a pretty darn good real time supplement to the info you get from 1800 WX BRIEF.

John Hafen
IVP 413AJ


On Jul 5, 2010, at 5:51 AM, Jeffrey Liegner, MD wrote:

This is a report from a Malibu pilot friend...



I got an iPAD about a week and a half ago. Yesterday was my first experience to use it in the cockpit. I flew from MMU to Kendall Tamiami. I downloaded the the latest Foreflight app V3.5.1 and all the sectionals, approach plates, low altitude charts and high altitude charts for the eastern seaboard.
 
I have to admit it was surprising how well the touch screen interface works to make using the charts easy.  The speed of changing screens also helps as well as the pinch-touch zoom to allow scaling and moving around the charts. The first electronic chart reader that actually makes them easier to use than paper. I have all the same charts on my panel mount Garmin GMX200. But they are much harder to use because of the smaller screen(6.5" diag) and the lack of a easy user interface.
The approach plates are almost the same size as paper so they are easy to use.
 
I haven't used it to file flight plans yet but the couple of times I tried to fill out the mandatory fields I flubbed it up because one of my fingers touched the screen outside of the virtual keyboard area and the pop up window causing the window to close without saving the data already entered. Sometimes the touch screen is too sensitive.
 
The screen brightness is adequate even in direct sunlight. The auto brightness stinks. I don't know how Apple would release a product with auto brightness that works so poorly.
 
Some of the other short comings: I have used Jeppesen approach plates for the last 20 years. They aren't available yet. I like them much more than the government approach plates. That is why the pros use them. Jepps says their iPad plates will be out soon but they will probably cost an arm and a leg compared to the Foreflight subscription.
 
The biggest drawback is that the iPad is on the AT&T network. I subscribed to their data service. The 3G is available at my house in NJ. But so far only EDGE in Lake Placid and in Key Largo. I will probably have the same problem in the Outerbanks and many other places I will go to. So when traveling I connect it via WiFi to my Verizon 3G to WiFi router which has my Verizon aircard as the back haul. Like the VISA commercial, Verizon's 3G service is available everywhere you want to be.

 
AT&T's EDGE service I found is slower than dial up. Its painfully slow.
 
The moving map works surprisingly well considering the single channel GPS receiver in it. But in my airplane you have to hold the iPAD close to the windshield or the side window to see enough satellites for it to work. If you do place it to have good views of the
satellites it position and altitude it agrees very well with my Garmin 430W
 
Like any cellular device don't expect its 3G/Edge service to work once you are more than a few thousand feet up. So you better have everything you need downloaded into it and don't expect any weather updates in flight.
 
An important little trick I found is not to turn airplane mode on. Turning airplane mode on seems to turn off not only the WiFi and cellular radios but also the GPS receiver. So I leave airplane mode off and turn off the WiFi and Cellular receivers from the settings menu to conserve battery life.
 
I'm not wetting my pants over it but the iPAD is a damn good EFB. Beside that it does a number of things very well such as a book reader. The electronic version of the WSJ is also surprisingly easy to read on it, as well as many other apps.
 
The problem is what happens if it goes tits up on you. What are you gonna have as a backup? All the same old paper stuff?
It has already froze up twice on me twice while installing an app. The equivalent 3 finger windows salute is to turn it off and reboot it again. Fortunately it does that fairly quickly.
 
Feel free to share this report.
 
Greg

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