X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:27:25 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from snt0-omc3-s16.snt0.hotmail.com ([65.55.90.155] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4383083 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:08:09 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.90.155; envelope-from=bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Received: from SNT139-W58 ([65.55.90.135]) by snt0-omc3-s16.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 6 Jul 2010 19:07:33 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c7916066-63d5-42db-ab00-cb29ada2eb88_" X-Originating-IP: [71.111.125.230] From: Bill Kennedy X-Original-To: Subject: RE: [LML] 320/360 MK II tail -- Dramatic!?! X-Original-Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 19:07:33 -0700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2010 02:07:33.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[29C6E4E0:01CB1D79] --_c7916066-63d5-42db-ab00-cb29ada2eb88_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't remember the T-38 having a difficult stall=2C but I remember that i= ntentional spin were forbidden. Happily=2C I complied=2C since I'd spun my = lunch up a couple of times in the T-37. I didn't fly "double-ugly"=2C but friends told me you had to be very attent= ive of the ball when pulling g's or it would spoil your day. The Thud was v= ery honest and you had to be ham-fisted to get in trouble (same as the Lan= cair's). To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue=2C 6 Jul 2010 16:04:34 -0400 From: j.hafen@comcast.net Subject: [LML] 320/360 MK II tail -- Dramatic!?! Nah=2C you guys are all wrong about the dramatic thing (having seen departu= res in the T-38 and F-4 but not the F-105). =20 Dramatic is the "snap-roll" my face used to do at the hands of my x-wife=2C= even with the ball centered. And unlike the F-105=2C there was never any = warning at all. No pre-stall buffeting. Just a radical and instantaneous = departure from controlled flight without any warning..... Eventually=2C we got into a flat spin. "Stick Forward=2C Ailerons and Rudd= er Neutral. If not recovered=2C maintain full forward stick and deploy dra= g chute." If that doesn't work=2C you either bail out or die. I bailed out=2C and other than a few war wounds=2C lived to tell about it! John Hafen413AJ IVP On Jul 5=2C 2010=2C at 6:04 PM=2C Bill Kennedy wrote:"Dramatic" is a snap r= oll like the F-105 would do in a deep stall without the ball centered. It's= easy to recover=2C but not a wonderful flight characteristic. Plenty of wa= rning -- lots of pre-stall buffeting. I wouldn't contemplate changing tails= (small to large or large to small). Too much work and too little gain. To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon=2C 5 Jul 2010 08:51:46 -0400 From: gt_phantom@hotmail.com Subject: [LML] Re: 320/360 MK II tail If the power off stall in your plane is "dramatic=2C" then it is different = than either my small tail 320 or my previous 235. Then again=2C we might j= ust have a different definition of "dramatic." To me "dramatic" would be t= he stall characteristics of a T-38 or F-4=2C not these wonderful and respon= sive toys. :-)=20 If you like your plane=2C that is what is important. For myself=2C there i= sn't much that I would change about my plane even if I could - unless it we= re to add yet more power. But then=2C that's something you can never have = too much of. All I really know is that I love my plane=2C which happens to be a small ta= il=2C and given that I love it like it is I wouldn't want to give up even 2= knots for a change that a) won't change my flying pleasure one bit and b) = might make my plane less rugged and c) might interfere with my communicatio= ns. But hey=2C this is the experimental world and the beauty is that we can all= say=2C "I want to do this differently." Cheers all Bill On 14:59=2C Bill Kennedy wrote:I've got the larger=2C carbon fiber tail on = my 320. In spite of your opinion=2C it doesn't seem much like any Cessna I'= ve flown. My guess is that it flies a lot like the small tail version=2C ex= cept it has better elevator response over a broader speed range. Being carb= on fiber=2C it may not have added any weight=2C but I don't really know. My notion is that Lancair didn't "...mess up a good thing"=2C but fixed a b= ad thing. I've been very happy with the flying qualities of N42BK except fo= r its rather dramatic power off stall characteristics (which I cannot imagi= ne being any better with the small tail). Bill Kennedy N42BK=2C 599.6=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri=2C 2 Jul 2010 07:28:51 -0400 From: anpfield@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LML] Re: 320/360 MK II tail Well said=2C Bill Rumburg!!! Don=92t mess up a good thing. Pete Field320= =2C Small TailN775DX=2C St. Louis From: William Rumburg [mailto:lancair403@= verizon.net]=20 Sent: Thursday=2C July 01=2C 2010 5:45 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] 320/360 MK II tail Many have cut off (and continue to cut of= f) the original 320 'small' elevator/horizontal stabilizer. The 320/360 is= a sport plane and it's a shame to cut off or abandon the origional elevato= r/horizontal stabilizer and replace it with the heavy MK II elevator/horizo= ntal stabilizer=2C turning it into a 'Cessna'=2C as dictated by the Austali= an CAA ...a SHAME!I built and have flown a 320 with the original elevator/h= orizontal stabilizer for twelve years. It's a sport plane and NOT a Cessna! Bill Rumburgn403Wr (Sonic bOOm) The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . Get started. -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . Get started. =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H= otmail.=20 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmulticalendar&ocid=3D= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5= --_c7916066-63d5-42db-ab00-cb29ada2eb88_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't remember the T-38 having a difficult stall=2C but I remember that i= ntentional spin were forbidden. Happily=2C I complied=2C since I'd spun my = lunch up a couple of times in the T-37.

I didn't fly "double-ugly"= =2C but friends told me you had to be very attentive of the ball when pulli= ng g's or it would spoil your day. The Thud was very honest and you had to&= nbsp=3B be ham-fisted to get in trouble (same as the Lancair's).

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Tue=2C 6 Jul 2010 1= 6:04:34 -0400
From: j.hafen@comcast.net
Subject: [LML] 320/360 MK II = tail -- Dramatic!?!

Nah=2C you guys are all wrong about the dramatic thing (having seen departu= res in the T-38 and F-4 but not the F-105).  =3B

Dra= matic is the "snap-roll" my face used to do at the hands of my x-wife=2C ev= en with the ball centered.  =3BAnd unlike the F-105=2C there was never = any warning at all.  =3BNo pre-stall buffeting.  =3BJust a radical = and instantaneous departure from controlled flight without any warning.....=

Eventually=2C we got into a flat spin.  =3B"S= tick Forward=2C Ailerons and Rudder Neutral.  =3BIf not recovered=2C ma= intain full forward stick and deploy drag chute."

= If that doesn't work=2C you either bail out or die.

I bailed out=2C and other than a few war wounds=2C lived to tell about it= !

John Hafen
413AJ IVP


On Jul 5=2C 2010=2C at 6:04 PM=2C Bill Kennedy wrote:=

"Dramatic" is a snap roll like the F-105 would do in a = deep stall without the ball centered. It's easy to recover=2C but not a won= derful flight characteristic. Plenty of warning -- lots of pre-stall buffet= ing. I wouldn't contemplate changing tails (small to large or large to smal= l). Too much work and too little gain.

To= : =3Blml@lancaironline.net
Date: Mon=2C 5 Jul 2010= 08:51:46 -0400
From: =3Bgt_phantom@hotmail.comSubject: [LML] Re: 320/360 MK II tail

If the power off stall in yo= ur plane is "dramatic=2C" then it is different than either my small tail 32= 0 or my previous 235. =3B Then again=2C we might just have a different = definition of "dramatic." =3B To me "dramatic" would be the stall chara= cteristics of a T-38 or F-4=2C not these wonderful and responsive toys.&nbs= p=3B =3B:-)&nbs= p=3B

If you like your plane=2C that is what is = important. =3B For myself=2C there isn't much that I would change about= my plane even if I could - unless it were to add yet more power. =3B B= ut then=2C that's something you can never have too much of.

All I re= ally know is that I love my plane=2C which happens to be a small tail=2C an= d given that I love it like it is I wouldn't want to give up even 2 knots f= or a change that a) won't change my flying pleasure one bit and b) might ma= ke my plane less rugged and c) might interfere with my communications.
<= br>But hey=2C this is the experimental world and the beauty is that we can = all say=2C "I want to do this differently."

Cheers all

Bill


On 14:59=2C Bill Kennedy wrote:
I've got the larger=2C carbon fiber tail on my = 320. In spite of your opinion=2C it doesn't seem much like any Cessna I've = flown. My guess is that it flies a lot like the small tail version=2C excep= t it has better elevator response over a broader speed range. Being carbon = fiber=2C it may not have added any weight=2C but I don't really know.
My notion is that Lancair didn't "...mess up a good thing"=2C but fixed a= bad thing. I've been very happy with the flying qualities of N42BK except = for its rather dramatic power off stall characteristics (which I cannot ima= gine being any better with the small tail).

Bill Kennedy
N42BK=2C= 599.6 =3B

To: = =3Blml@lancaironline.net
Date: Fri=2C 2 Jul 2010 07:28= :51 -0400
From: =3B<= a class=3D"ecxecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:anpfield@sbcgloba= l.net">anpfield@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [LML] Re: 320/360 MK II tail<= br>
Well said=2C Bill Rumburg!!! =3B Don=92t me= ss up a good thing. =3B

 =3B

Pete Field
320=2C Small Tail
N775DX=2C St. Louis

 =3B

From: =3BWilliam Ru= mburg [mailto:lancair403@verizon.net] =3B
Sent= : =3BThursda= y=2C July 01=2C 2010 5:45 PM
To:=  =3Bl= ml@lancaironline.net
Subject= : =3B[LML] 3= 20/360 MK II tail

 =3B

Many ha= ve cut off (and continue to cut off) the original 320  =3B'small' eleva= tor/horizontal stabilizer. The 320/360 is a =3Bsport plane and it's =3Ba shame to cut = off or abandon the origional elevator/horizontal stabilizer and =3Brepl= ace =3Bit with the heavy MK II elevator/horizontal stabilizer=2C turnin= g it into a =3B'Cessna'=2C as dictated by the Austalian =3BCAA =3B...a =3BSHAME!
=
I built =3Band have flown a =3B320 = with the original elevator/horizontal stabilizer for twelve years. =3BI= t's a sport plane and NOT a Cessna!
 =3B
Bill Rumburg
n403Wr (Sonic bOOm)

The= New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox. =3BGet started.

--

For archi=
ves and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

T= he New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox.=  =3BGet started.


The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combin= e multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy. = --_c7916066-63d5-42db-ab00-cb29ada2eb88_--