X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 17:37:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta11.charter.net ([216.33.127.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4180923 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:13:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.80; envelope-from=lhenney@charter.net Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100327181300.WOIA14520.mta11.charter.net@imp09> for ; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:13:00 -0400 Received: from CYBERMAX ([96.39.213.138]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id yJCx1d00K2zjSxc05JCzae; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:12:59 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=fLuM78UsAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Aj82RSfrAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=-aD5KA1_AAAA:8 a=4AbY17tM1Cig8vW710gA:9 a=gAlrYBy-m1k9DHzYAHIA:7 a=6WmgOIyvQNkKUuBHRSiNWIsaxRkA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=VQWZxD7wvt0A:10 a=CVU0O5Kb7MsA:10 a=3jk_M6PjnjYA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=YQ-GvmYU9tsA:10 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=Whv8HLVs5OMA:10 a=3OQCF7F3UOXJGlh9:21 a=PnvHvaqDXhe3q2Ng:21 a=ROjO0UVxVolES3lxebwA:9 a=PGRp8GQoU6wxqjWDz8UA:7 a=LyxBGwiSt2IB2FSs5-E2M2Kj7_0A:4 From: "Larry Henney" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: Great Prop for LNC2 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:12:54 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <5A730E17991D4E508087F319E6C02E79@CYBERMAX> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009C_01CACDAF.39137DB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrNlLXS688exL52ROWmm1OjhLiRUwAQYT8w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009C_01CACDAF.39137DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig, I ran the Hartzell 68" prop on my 360 for many years and 700 hours. It's a good prop and maxed out around 217 kts. I now run a 68x85 fixed pitch prop from Craig Catto. His prop is 9 mph faster than the Hartzell from sea level (plus 44 inches) (225 kts) to 18K. Or stated another way, I can save 1 1/2 gph at the same TAS. The constant speed is nice but needed balancing. I'm sure it's a little stiffer than that MT you're looking at. The Catto is much faster and a delight in slow cruise at 185 kts (7gph) and smooth as glass. I believe the Catto prop to be the most efficient choice. The biggest difference (perhaps obvious) between the Hartzell and Catto is around the airport. When within 10 miles of the field I can go to idle and always make it with the Catto. The Hartzell by contrast is a giant speed break when at idle power. I carry power all the way to touchdown with the Hartzell. Takeoff roll provides the opposite affect. I can roll over a 1000 to sometimes 1800 feet to get airborne with the Catto. The Hartzell has much shorter takeoff rolls. I recently took off from Steamboat Springs (7K MSL) on a cool day (Catto Prop). The plane took 2500 ft at max gross wt. This seemed ok on a 4500 ft runway although the Hartzell would have been more comfortable. BTW, we're running a 68x80 Catto on Rick C.s 160 hp 320 as well. It turns 2400 rpm 156 kts (179 mph) and 2600 rpm at 169 kts (194 mph). It is a little older prop design (perhaps slightly less efficient) than the props that Craig now makes. Top speed 197 kts (227 mph) at 2950 rpm. I like Catto Props so much that I might one day be willing to part with my Hartzell. Larry Henney Race 36 N360LH 925 hours _____ From: marv@lancair.net [mailto:marv@lancair.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:17 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: Prop for LNC2 Posted for Sky2high@aol.com: Craig, Lyc 320's have no restriction on how long you can run your engine at takeoff power. I ran the Air Venture Cup races at WOT, 2680 RPM (it felt good there) and 2000-3000 MSL for the Dayton to Finish Line leg - just a bit over 2 hours. Uh, you will need adequate fuel flow for that. Grayhawk In a message dated 3/26/2010 5:23:43 A.M. Central Daylight Time, craig@skybolt.net writes: Hi Randy, Your very funny. You have quite a collection too that may be slowing you down. Maybe we should be requesting that they start making the trophies out of aluminum. That 3 blade scimitar MT is a sexy looking prop. I was hoping that I would hear everyone come back that they were faster with it. Love the quiet and smooth but got to have that speed baby. Tonight I did a test run with some minor tweaks and it ran 212 kts at 3000 ft. Std day. 2550 and WOT. Guess I am going to need rocket pods to do much better. Craig N73S L320 From: randy snarr Sender: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Prop for LNC2 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 22:33:39 -0400 To: lml@lancaironline.net (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/lml/Message/54477-H.txt) (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/lml/Message/54477-P.txt) I have only run the MT 3 blade. I too love this propeller. Very smooth and light. On my IO320 the prop weight is only 37 lbs. Please don't ask how I know this but it is a wood core, combination of spruce and a highly compressed beachwood If I recall what the factory told me, with a fiberglass shell and stainless leading edge for protection from moisture ect.. Wood also is flexible and has natural dampening properties. It is the only propeller I have run on the airplane but it is fast. Even with my Legacy style tips (25' wing) I am also running the larger legacy tail (MKII) and a completely stock IO320 ( injected/ Elec IG) and I can get to 198-200 KTS TAS at 8000. I would love to try other propellers but that is too much of a hassle for me. I am happy with the set up and would definetaly buy another one.. Craig, If I recall, weren't you at about 210 KTS with your current set up? Leave the OSH GC trophy home and the weight savings alone will get you another 5 KTS... FWIW... Randy Snarr N694RS 235/320 --- On Wed, 3/24/10, Lorn H Olsen wrote: From: Lorn H Olsen Subject: [LML] Re: Prop for LNC2 To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 9:28 AM Craig, I love my _http://www.aerocomposites.com/_ (http://www.aerocomposites.com/) prop. I have over 600 hours on the prop, including an overspeed to 3,400 rpm (not the props fault), and the prop doesn't even have 1 scratch on the leading edge. I have seen Hartzel's that looked like they needed an overhaul at 200 hrs on PA-180's. Aero Composites uses a nickel leading edge. No inspection required for the overspeed according to Aero Composites. Lorn > Posted for "Craig Schulze" <_craig@skybolt.net_ (unknown://mc/compose?to=craig@skybolt.net) >: > Date: March 23, 2010 6:06:52 AM EDT > > Hi Guys, > > Does anyone have any feedback on different props for the Lancair 320/360? > Has anyone tried a Hartzel Scimitar? MT? Any performance differences over > the standard Hartzel 2 blade? > > Thank you, > Craig Schulze > Lancair 320 -- Lorn H. 'Feathers' Olsen, MAA, ASMEL, ASES, Comm, Inst DynaComm, Corp., 248-345-0500, mailto:_lorn@dynacomm.us_ (unknown://mc/compose?to=lorn@dynacomm.us) LNC2, FB90/92, O-320-D1F, 1,700 hrs, N31161, Y47, SE Michigan -- For archives and unsub _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html) Subscribe: _Feed_ (mailto:lml-feed@lancaironline.net?subject=Subscribe%20me!) , _Digest_ (mailto:lml-digest@lancaironline.net?subject=Subscribe%20me!) , _Index_ (mailto:lml-index@lancaironline.net?subject=Subscribe%20me!) . _Unsubscribe_ (mailto:lml-off@lancaironline.net?subject=Unsubscribe%20me!) _Mail to ListMaster_ (mailto:lml-request@lancaironline.net?subject=about%20lml@lancaironline.net% 20list) ------=_NextPart_000_009C_01CACDAF.39137DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Craig,
 
I ran the Hartzell 68" prop on my 360 for = many years=20 and 700 hours.  It's a good prop and maxed out around 217 = kts. =20 I now run a 68x85 fixed pitch prop from Craig Catto.  His prop = is 9=20 mph faster than the Hartzell from sea level (plus 44 inches) (225 = kts) to=20 18K.  Or stated another way, I can save 1 1/2 gph at the same = TAS. =20 The constant speed is nice but needed balancing.  I'm sure it's a = little=20 stiffer than that MT you're looking at.   The Catto is much = faster and=20 a delight in slow cruise at 185 kts (7gph) and smooth as glass.  I = believe=20 the Catto prop to be the most efficient choice.
 
The biggest difference (perhaps obvious) = between the=20 Hartzell and Catto is around the airport.  When within 10 miles of = the=20 field I can go to idle and always make it with the Catto.  The = Hartzell by=20 contrast is a giant speed break when at idle power. I carry power all = the way to=20 touchdown with the Hartzell.  Takeoff roll provides the opposite=20 affect.  I can roll over a 1000 to sometimes 1800 feet to get = airborne with=20 the Catto.  The Hartzell has much shorter takeoff rolls.  I = recently=20 took off from Steamboat Springs (7K MSL) on a cool day (Catto = Prop).  The=20 plane took 2500 ft at max gross wt.  This seemed ok on a 4500 ft = runway=20 although the Hartzell would have been more = comfortable.
 
BTW, we're running a 68x80 Catto on Rick C.s = 160 hp 320=20 as well.  It turns 2400 rpm 156 kts (179 mph) and 2600 = rpm at 169=20 kts (194 mph). It is a little older prop design (perhaps slightly less=20 efficient) than the props that Craig now makes.  Top speed 197 kts = (227=20 mph) at 2950 rpm.
 
I like Catto Props so much that I might one = day be=20 willing to part with my Hartzell.
 
Larry Henney
Race 36
N360LH
925 hours

From: marv@lancair.net = [mailto:marv@lancair.net]=20
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:17 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: Prop for = LNC2

Posted for=20 Sky2high@aol.com:

 Craig,
 
 Lyc 320's have = no=20 restriction on how long you can run your engine = at  
 takeoff=20 power.  I ran the Air Venture Cup races at WOT, 2680 RPM=20 (it  felt
good
 there) and 2000-3000 MSL for the = Dayton=20 to Finish Line leg -  just a bit over
 2=20 hours.  Uh, you will need adequate fuel flow=20 for  that.
 
 Grayhawk
 
 
&= nbsp;In=20 a message dated 3/26/2010 5:23:43 A.M. Central Daylight=20 Time,  
 craig@skybolt.net=20 writes:
 
 
 Hi Randy,
 Your very=20 funny.  You have quite a  collection too that may be = slowing=20 you
 down.  Maybe we should be  requesting = that=20 they start making the trophies
 out of aluminum.
 That = 3 blade=20 scimitar  MT is a sexy  looking prop.  I = was=20 hoping that I
 would hear everyone come back = that  they were=20 faster with it.  Love the quiet
 and smooth but got = to have=20 that  speed baby.  Tonight I did a test run with=20
 some minor tweaks and it ran  212 kts at 3000=20 ft.  Std day. 2550 and WOT.  
 Guess I am = going=20 to  need rocket pods to do much better.   =
 Craig=20
 N73S=20
 L320          = ;  =20
From:  
 randy=20 snarr  <randylsnarr@yahoo.com>  =20
 Sender:  
 <marv@lancaironline.net>&nbs= p; =20
 Subject:  
 Re: [LML] Re: Prop for = LNC2  =20
 Date:  
 Thu, 25 Mar 2010 22:33:39 = -0400  =20
 To:  
 lml@lancaironline.net  
&= nbsp;(http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/lml/Message/54477-H.txt)=20
 
 (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/lml/Message/5= 4477-P.txt)      =20
 I have only run the MT 3 blade. I too love = this  propeller.=20 Very smooth and
 light. On my IO320 the prop weight = is  only=20 37 lbs. Please don't ask how I
 know this but it is a=20 wood  core, combination of spruce and a highly =
 compressed=20 beachwood If I  recall what the factory told me, with a = fiberglass=20
shell
 and  stainless leading edge for protection = from=20 moisture ect..
 Wood  also is flexible and has natural = dampening properties. It is the  
 only propeller I = have run=20 on the airplane but it is fast. Even  with my
Legacy=20
 style tips (25' wing) I am also running the = larger  legacy=20 tail (MKII) and a
 completely stock IO320 ( injected/=20 Elec  IG) and I can get to 198-200 KTS
 TAS at=20 8000.
 I would love to  try other propellers but that = is too=20 much of a hassle for
 me. I am  happy with the set up = and=20 would definetaly buy another  one..
 Craig, If I = recall,=20 weren't you at about 210 KTS with  your current set = up?
 Leave=20 the OSH GC trophy home and the  weight savings alone will get = you=20
 another=20 5  KTS...
 
FWIW...
 Randy  Snarr<= BR> N694RS
 235/320
 
 ---=20 On Wed, 3/24/10, Lorn H  Olsen <lorn@dynacomm.us> wrote: =
 
From: Lorn H  Olsen=20 <lorn@dynacomm.us>
 Subject: [LML] Re: Prop=20 for  LNC2
 To: lml@lancaironline.net
 Date: = Wednesday,=20 March 24,  2010, 9:28 AM
 Craig,
 
 I = love my=20 _http://www.aerocomposites.com/_ (http://www.aerocomposites.com/)=20
 prop. I have over  600 hours on the prop, including = an=20 overspeed to 3,400
 rpm (not  the props fault), and = the prop=20 doesn't even have 1 scratch on the  
 leading edge. I = have=20 seen Hartzel's that looked like they needed  an =
 overhaul at=20 200 hrs on PA-180's.
 
 Aero Composites uses = a  nickel=20 leading edge. No inspection required for the=20
 overspeed  according to Aero=20 Composites.
 
 Lorn
 
> Posted=20 for  "Craig Schulze" <_craig@skybolt.net_=20
 (unknown://mc/compose?to=3Dcraig@skybolt.net) >:
> = Date: March=20 23,  2010 6:06:52 AM EDT
>
>  Hi=20 Guys,
>  
>  Does anyone have any = feedback on=20 different props  for the Lancair=20
 320/360?
>  Has anyone tried a=20 Hartzel  Scimitar?  MT?  Any performance=20 differences  
 over
>  the standard = Hartzel 2=20 blade?
>  
>  Thank=20 you,
>  Craig = Schulze  
>  Lancair=20 320
 
 --
 Lorn H. 'Feathers' = Olsen,  MAA,=20 ASMEL, ASES, Comm, Inst
 DynaComm, Corp.,=20 248-345-0500,  mailto:_lorn@dynacomm.us_=20
 (unknown://mc/compose?to=3Dlorn@dynacomm.us)
 LNC2, = FB90/92,=20 O-320-D1F,  1,700 hrs, N31161, Y47, SE=20 Michigan
 
 
 --
For archives  and = unsub=20
 _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html_=20
(http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html)   
 Subscribe:=20 _Feed_ =
 (mailto:lml-feed@lancaironline.net?subject=3DSubscribe%20me!)=20 ,  _Digest_=20
(mailto:lml-digest@lancaironline.net?subject=3DSubscribe%20me!)=20
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