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Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 06:23:15 -0400
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From: "Robert Mitchell" <rmitch1@hughes.net>
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Subject: RE: [LML] Re: 320 Airfoil Reflex
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Maybe he was flying over the Salton Sea!

Bob

N56SH

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
Sky2high@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:06 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: 320 Airfoil Reflex

 

Craig,

 

Interesting.......  Note that the flaps will actually fly higher than their
ground rigging position because of linkage slop and in flight air flow.

 

Of course, every 300 series aircraft is different.  Let's assume we are
talking about a slow built (fast builds are slightly different), Short
engine mount, small tail, pre-preg glass, standard wheels, and built
according to plans.  That means, by design, the flaps are in -7 degrees
reflex when faired into the fillet - that is if the fillets were laterally
located to the same position relative to the longeron.  Also, remember that
the horizontal stabilizer is to be mounted between -.5 to -1 degree
incidence (relative to the longeron) - another variable. 

 

Note that increasing the reflex results in wing forces that want to further
lift the nose.  If the horizontal stabilizer is not at the correct AOI, the
elevator may be necessarily positioned for more nose down force that may
increase drag.  It is not possible to know if your rigging is "sweet" for
everyone else unless all the conditions match.  Indeed, your reflex position
may overcome a condition in your tail.

 

If you wish to attain greater speeds, consider also using gap seals on the
rudder and elevator.  BTW, where is your rudder positioned at 215 Knots
(true or indicated?).

 

I do have a problem with your sea level speeds as the aircraft would have
increased drag from the sea water.

 

Grayhawk

 

In a message dated 3/25/2010 2:58:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
craig@skybolt.net writes:

 

Hi Bill,

 

I know a lot of others are claiming that reflex is at the faired in
position.  That may not be the best position.  My little 320 does 215 kts at
sea level.  210 is about the average cruise at 7500.  I am dialing in an
extra 1/2 inch (measured at the trailing edge of the flap) of reflex.  While
flying in formation I have determined that for my airplane this is the sweet
spot.  Too much will slow it down and any less will too.  The difference
between the faired in position and my reflex position is 7-10 kts.  I also
have the gaps on the flaps taped  and gap seals on the ailerons.  

 

Craig

N73S

From: Bill Kennedy [mailto:bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:27 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] 320 Airfoil Reflex

 

I've never been certain that my flaps up position is exactly right. I know
some of you couldn't sleep if their flaps weren't in exactly the best spot.
So, here's what I would like from you:

What is the exact angle between your cockpit longeron and the top inboard
skin of your flap when it is fully up? I ask this question because it will
be easy for me to measure and correct if necessary and it is not ambiguous.
My plane is a 320.

Thanks -- Bill Kennedy




  _____  


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Maybe he was flying over the Salton Sea!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>N56SH<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Sky2high@aol.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:06 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> lml@lancaironline.net<br><b>Subject:</b> [LML] Re: 320 =
Airfoil Reflex<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>C=
raig,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
nteresting.......&nbsp; Note that the flaps will actually fly higher =
than their ground rigging position because of linkage slop and in flight =
air flow.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
f course, every 300 series aircraft is different.&nbsp; Let's assume we =
are talking about a slow built (fast builds are slightly different), =
Short engine mount, small tail, pre-preg glass, standard wheels, and =
built according to plans.&nbsp; That means, by design, the flaps are in =
-7 degrees reflex when faired into the fillet - that is if the fillets =
were laterally located to the same position relative to the =
longeron.&nbsp; Also, remember that the horizontal stabilizer&nbsp;is to =
be mounted between -.5 to -1 degree incidence (relative to the longeron) =
- another variable. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
ote that increasing the reflex results in wing&nbsp;forces that want to =
further lift the nose.&nbsp; If the horizontal stabilizer is not at the =
correct AOI, the elevator may be necessarily positioned for more nose =
down force&nbsp;that may increase drag.&nbsp; It is not possible to know =
if your rigging is &quot;sweet&quot; for everyone else unless =
all&nbsp;the conditions match.&nbsp; Indeed, your reflex position may =
overcome a condition in your tail.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
f you wish to attain&nbsp;greater speeds, consider also&nbsp;using gap =
seals on the rudder and elevator.&nbsp; BTW, where is your rudder =
positioned at 215 Knots (true or =
indicated?).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
 do have a problem with your sea level speeds as the aircraft would have =
increased drag from the =
sea&nbsp;water.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>G=
rayhawk<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
n a message dated 3/25/2010 2:58:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time, <a =
href=3D"mailto:craig@skybolt.net">craig@skybolt.net</a> =
writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I know a lot of others are claiming that reflex is at the faired in =
position.&nbsp; That may not be the best position.&nbsp; My little 320 =
does 215 kts at sea level.&nbsp; 210 is about the average cruise at =
7500.&nbsp; I am dialing in an extra 1/2 inch (measured at the trailing =
edge of the flap) of reflex.&nbsp; While flying in formation I have =
determined that for my airplane this is the sweet spot.&nbsp; Too much =
will slow it down and any less will too.&nbsp; The difference between =
the faired in position and my reflex position is 7-10 kts.&nbsp; I also =
have the gaps on the flaps taped &nbsp;and gap seals on the =
ailerons.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Craig<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>N73S<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Bill Kennedy [mailto:bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
lml@lancaironline.net<br><b>Subject:</b> [LML] 320 Airfoil =
Reflex<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>I've never been certain that my flaps up position is exactly right. I =
know some of you couldn't sleep if their flaps weren't in exactly the =
best spot. So, here's what I would like from you:<br><br>What is the =
exact angle between your cockpit longeron and the top inboard skin of =
your flap when it is fully up? I ask this question because it will be =
easy for me to measure and correct if necessary and it is not ambiguous. =
My plane is a 320.<br><br>Thanks -- Bill =
Kennedy<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. <a =
href=3D"http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/" =
target=3D"_new" =
title=3D"http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/">Sign up =
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style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></di=
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