X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.62] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c4) with ESMTP id 4033190 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:57:54 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.62; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=epHLiQzLxpSiOw/N5yvSE7szZRsQgR4WuM5v1W7Max4qJ/p2V8V5Gmiyc9xdVb/t; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.33] (helo=ccaselt3) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NMcCj-0004DN-Ef for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:57:17 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: From: "Colyn Case at earthlink" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Intumescent firwall coating X-Original-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:57:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_026D_01CA81E0.EC5B8A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da9408119ae0b30c9a0975422176f2e2b0776350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.33 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_026D_01CA81E0.EC5B8A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I couldn't find the cold face temp for the msds but here it is for = durablanket:=20 http://www.fiberfrax.com/files/Fiberfrax-Durablanket-Mat.pdf 2" looks like it would reliably do the job. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sky2high@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Intumescent firwall coating Colyn, Yes. Fiberfrax is good at temps to 2600F. See = http://www.fiberfrax.com/ . If the firewall is flat, multiple layers of fiberfrax (2 or 3 of 1/8" = thick sheets) with stainless facing seems appropriate for the 300 = series. It not only protects the glass resin, but also the wooden = plywood firewall core. Perhaps this would work with some tailoring for those with exhaust = tunnels - On the other hand, the turbine firewall is a piece of 3-D = abstract art.=20 Grayhawk In a message dated 12/20/2009 6:51:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, = colyncase@earthlink.net writes: Bad data alert!!! (pardon the email yelling Scotty). The data below is for 3m Nextel ceramic cloth. I have not been = able to obtain any hot side/cold side data for the Thermo-Lag 3000 or = any other intumescent. My take away so far is that you need to build something that has = high insulating properties and will hang together to the cold side temp = of the barrier whatever you are using..... So depending on what = you use for a barrier you still have to deal with 500 dF to 1000 dF. Anyone have a suggestion? =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim Nordin=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:36 AM Subject: [LML] Intumescent firwall coating And now with the data of hot/cold side temperatures for = intumescents, I may have to go back to the stainless/fiberfrax as the = preferred combination although I don=E2=80=99t have any data on that at = all. It may be I have to put an intumescent coating on top of the = stainless/fiberfrax original or under those. My firewall is = glass/plywood/glass so it might not be as scary as softening honeycomb. = Yeah, I think I=E2=80=99ll believe that so I can move forward. Feel much = better now. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of mikeeasley Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:52 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Intumescent firwall coating Colyn, It seems that the firewall blanket has to serve two purposes, one = to keep the fire from penetrating the firewall, and two to keep the heat = from softening the firewall. If I read the chart correctly, you would = start softening the firewall at about 500F in the engine compartment, = since the 3M material cuts the temp in about half. Mike Easley In a message dated 12/18/09 08:19:52 Mountain Standard Time, = colyncase@earthlink.net writes: Here's a document of the sort I was hoping to find for the = intumescent paint. It shows hot face vs. cold face temperature. Based on the original, it seems to me that is the worry. e.g. = the firewall gets soft somewhere above 250. = http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/pdfs/hotface_cold%20face.pdf= the home page is here: = http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/materials/fabric_312_aero.ht= ml ------=_NextPart_000_026D_01CA81E0.EC5B8A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
I couldn't find the cold face temp for the msds but here it is for=20 durablanket:
htt= p://www.fiberfrax.com/files/Fiberfrax-Durablanket-Mat.pdf
 
2" looks like it would reliably do the job.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Sky2high@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 = 7:34=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Intumescent = firwall=20 coating

Colyn,
 
Yes.  Fiberfrax is good at temps to 2600F.  See http://www.fiberfrax.com/ .
 
If the firewall is flat, multiple layers of fiberfrax (2 or = 3=20 of 1/8" thick sheets) with stainless facing seems = appropriate for=20 the 300 series.  It not only protects the glass resin, but also = the=20 wooden plywood firewall core.
 
Perhaps this would work with some tailoring for those with = exhaust=20 tunnels - On the other hand, the turbine firewall is a piece of 3-D = abstract=20 art. 
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 12/20/2009 6:51:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, = colyncase@earthlink.net writes:
Bad data alert!!! = (pardon the=20 email yelling Scotty).
 
The data below is for 3m Nextel = ceramic=20 cloth.   I have not been able to obtain any hot side/cold = side=20 data for the Thermo-Lag 3000 or any other intumescent.
 
My take away so far is that you = need to build=20 something that has high insulating properties and will hang together = to the=20 cold side temp of the barrier whatever you are=20 using.....        So depending on = what=20 you use for a barrier you still have to deal with 500 dF to 1000=20 dF.
 
Anyone have a = suggestion?  =20
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Jim Nordin
To: lml@lancaironline.net =
Sent: Sunday, December 20, = 2009 2:36=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Intumescent = firwall=20 coating

And now = with the=20 data of hot/cold side temperatures for intumescents, I may have to = go back=20 to the stainless/fiberfrax as the preferred combination although I = don=E2=80=99t=20 have any data on that at all.

It may be = I have to=20 put an intumescent coating on top of the stainless/fiberfrax = original or=20 under those. My firewall is glass/plywood/glass so it might not be = as=20 scary as softening honeycomb. Yeah, I think I=E2=80=99ll believe = that so I can=20 move forward. Feel much better now.

Jim

 

From:=20 Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = mikeeasley
Sent: Friday, December 18, = 2009 9:52=20 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = Intumescent=20 firwall coating

Colyn,

It seems that the = firewall=20 blanket has to serve two purposes, one to keep the fire from = penetrating=20 the firewall, and two to keep the heat from softening the = firewall. =20 If I read the chart correctly, you would start softening the = firewall at=20 about 500F in the engine compartment, since the 3M material cuts = the temp=20 in about half.

Mike=20 Easley

In a message dated 12/18/09 08:19:52 = Mountain=20 Standard Time, colyncase@earthlink.net = writes:

Here's a document = of the=20 sort I was hoping to find for the intumescent=20 paint.

It shows hot face = vs. cold=20 face temperature.

Based on the = original, it=20 seems to me that is the worry.   e.g. the firewall = gets soft=20 somewhere above 250.

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/pdfs/hotface_cold%= 20face.pdf

the home page is=20 here:

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/materials/fabric= _312_aero.html

 

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