X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:37:21 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c4) with ESMTP id 4032230 for LML@lancair.net; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:55:56 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.123; envelope-from=Wolfgang@MiCom.net X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=LJNHRzvFAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=B302dho5-op0kIZBxFgA:9 a=-RiPSROS7VVdhWcKsC7ESfFupewA:4 a=3q8PDF_K8bIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=ZWOlRvCJ2Vdh7Uus:21 a=dD5lgAYxr68Yi8DM:21 a=-MrHv-quGB8QAKzCdTUA:7 a=94wOZBFOgBHRSGpQL2T_Ym5YDPkA:4 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 74.218.201.50 Received: from [74.218.201.50] ([74.218.201.50:1439] helo=micomxp) by hrndva-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id C4/44-15201-8056E2B4; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:55:21 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <004b01ca819d$97ae6dc0$6401a8c0@micomxp> From: "Wolfgang" X-Original-To: Subject: Fw: [LML] Vne discussion X-Original-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:55:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01CA8173.AE9CBC50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01CA8173.AE9CBC50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am still bothered by the fact that nobody seems to be curious about = how Vne is arrived at, especially in the case of the Lancair's. Most pay = appropriate homage to it but I have yet to hear any details about it. = You don't need a aeronautic degree to follow the basics and nobody seems = to know even the basics. What is this, some form of black magic = incomprehensible to mere mortals ? ? I, for one, when building a craft = like the Lancair, most certainly want to know. If there has been a usable mention of this subject on the list, can = someone tell which of the 53,500 posts to look up ? I know there is a simple answer somewhere. This reminds me of my quest = to identify why the horizontal stabilizer on a UH1E\Bell-205 is designed = to produces considerable down force. That answer, once found, turned out = to be quite simple. Wolfgang -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- I'm having difficulty understanding why no one can give direct answers. I'm only looking for the various factors that are used to determine Vne. Flutter, canopy being sucked off, skin surface excess vibration . . . ? = ? ? . . . not the explecit calculations. Let's narow it down, what factors for the 300 series and Legacy ? Wolfgang =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: "Robert Pastusek" =20 Sender: =20 Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Vne discussion=20 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:37:39 -0500=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Wolfgang, As has been stated a number of times on this forum, the determination of = Vne is a very complex and multi-discipline task. Not to repeat what's = been said many times, the several aero engineers that participate in = this forum have suggested that this subject is probably beyond a basic = aero engineering degree. You're unlikely to find one of these people = willing to offer a "back of the hand" quick solution. LOTS of = information on the internet about this subject, and some serious reading = available. a couple of courses on aeronautical design and finite element = analysis will give you some idea of what you are looking for. Definitely = beyond a simple posting on the LML, IMHO. Bob=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Sky2high@aol.com=20 Sender: =20 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vne discussion=20 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:37:27 -0500=20 To: lml=20 =20 =20 =20 Yes, there was extensive information published here about the Vne = determination. Scott Krueger=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- So . . . am I to conclude that there's nobody on the list that can = identify how Vne is determined ? With all the experience of posters on this list, I'm surprised to say = the least. Is this black magic art or is there some real formula/procedure ? All I've seen here so far is "is that meadured in IAS, TAS OR Mach ?" or = "what is the speed for xxx airframe ?". . . . but nothing about how the number comes to be. Wolfgang ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01CA8173.AE9CBC50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am still bothered by the fact that = nobody seems=20 to be curious about how Vne is arrived at, especially in the = case of the=20 Lancair's. Most pay appropriate homage to it but I have yet to hear any = details=20 about it. You don't need a aeronautic degree to follow the basics and = nobody=20 seems to know even the basics. What is this, some form of black magic=20 incomprehensible to mere mortals ? ? I, for one, when building a craft = like the=20 Lancair, most certainly want to know.
 
If there has been a usable mention of = this subject=20 on the list, can someone tell which of the 53,500 posts to look up=20 ?
 
I know there is a simple answer = somewhere. This=20 reminds me of my quest to identify why the horizontal stabilizer on a=20 UH1E\Bell-205 is designed to produces considerable down force. That = answer, once=20 found, turned out to be quite simple.
 
Wolfgang
 

I'm having difficulty understanding why no one can give direct=20 answers.
I'm only looking for the various factors that are used to determine = Vne.
Flutter, canopy being sucked off, skin surface excess vibration . . = . ? ?=20 ?
. . . not the explecit calculations.
Let's narow it down, what factors for the 300 series and Legacy = ?
 
Wolfgang
 
From: "Robert Pastusek" = <rpastusek@htii.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Vne discussion
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:37:39 -0500
To: lml@lancaironline.net

Wolfgang,

As has been stated a number of times on this = forum, the=20 determination of Vne is a very complex and multi-discipline task. Not to = repeat=20 what=92s been said many times, the several aero engineers that = participate in this=20 forum have suggested that this subject is probably beyond a basic aero=20 engineering degree. You=92re unlikely to find one of these people = willing to offer=20 a =93back of the hand=94 quick solution. LOTS of information on the = internet about=20 this subject, and some serious reading available. a couple of courses on = aeronautical design and finite element analysis will give you some idea = of what=20 you are looking for. Definitely beyond a simple posting on the LML, = IMHO.

Bob=20

From: Sky2high@aol.com
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vne = discussion
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:37:27 = -0500
To: lml

 
Yes, there was extensive information published here about the = Vne=20 determination.
 
Scott Krueger

So . . . am I to conclude that there's nobody = on the=20 list that can identify how Vne is determined ?

With all the experience of posters on this = list, I'm=20 surprised to say the least.

Is this black magic art or is there some real = formula/procedure ?

All I've seen here so far is "is that = meadured in IAS,=20 TAS OR Mach ?" or "what is the speed for xxx airframe ?".

. . . but nothing about how the number comes = to=20 be.

Wolfgang

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