X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:34:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c4) with ESMTP id 4031950 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:10:14 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.147; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id nBKD9ZQk029857 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:09:35 -0500 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id q.d5c.55516f5c (29672) for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:09:25 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:10:40 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Intumescent firwall coating X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1261314640" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com -------------------------------1261314640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Colyn, =20 Yes. Fiberfrax is good at temps to 2600F. See _http://www.fiberfrax.com/= _=20 (http://www.fiberfrax.com/) . =20 If the firewall is flat, multiple layers of fiberfrax (2 or 3 of 1/8"=20 thick sheets) with stainless facing seems appropriate for the 300 series.= It=20 not only protects the glass resin, but also the wooden plywood firewall= core. =20 Perhaps this would work with some tailoring for those with exhaust tunnel= s=20 - On the other hand, the turbine firewall is a piece of 3-D abstract art.= =20 =20 Grayhawk =20 =20 In a message dated 12/20/2009 6:51:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, =20 colyncase@earthlink.net writes: Bad data alert!!! (pardon the email yelling Scotty). =20 The data below is for 3m Nextel ceramic cloth. I have not been able to= =20 obtain any hot side/cold side data for the Thermo-Lag 3000 or any other= =20 intumescent. =20 My take away so far is that you need to build something that has high=20 insulating properties and will hang together to the cold side temp of the= =20 barrier whatever you are using..... So depending on what you use= for a=20 barrier you still have to deal with 500 dF to 1000 dF. =20 Anyone have a suggestion? =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: _Jim Nordin_ (mailto:panelmaker@earthlink.net) =20 To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) =20 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:36 AM Subject: [LML] Intumescent firwall coating And now with the data of hot/cold side temperatures for intumescents, I= =20 may have to go back to the stainless/fiberfrax as the preferred combinati= on=20 although I don=E2=80=99t have any data on that at all.=20 It may be I have to put an intumescent coating on top of the=20 stainless/fiberfrax original or under those. My firewall is glass/plywood= /glass so it=20 might not be as scary as softening honeycomb. Yeah, I think I=E2=80=99ll= believe that=20 so I can move forward. Feel much better now.=20 Jim=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 mikeeasley Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:52 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Intumescent firwall coating =20 Colyn, =20 It seems that the firewall blanket has to serve two purposes, one to keep= =20 the fire from penetrating the firewall, and two to keep the heat from=20 softening the firewall. If I read the chart correctly, you would start= =20 softening the firewall at about 500F in the engine compartment, since the= 3M=20 material cuts the temp in about half. =20 Mike Easley =20 In a message dated 12/18/09 08:19:52 Mountain Standard Time,=20 colyncase@earthlink.net writes: =20 =20 Here's a document of the sort I was hoping to find for the intumescent=20 paint. =20 It shows hot face vs. cold face temperature. =20 Based on the original, it seems to me that is the worry. e.g. the=20 firewall gets soft somewhere above 250. =20 _http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/pdfs/hotface_cold%20face.pdf= _=20 (http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/pdfs/hotface_cold%20face.pdf= )=20 =20 the home page is here: =20 _http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/materials/fabric_312_aero.ht= ml _=20 (http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/materials/fabric_312_aero.ht= ml)=20 =20 -------------------------------1261314640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Colyn,
 
Yes.  Fiberfrax is good at temps to 2600F.  See http://www.fiberfrax.com/ .
 
If the firewall is flat, multiple layers of fiberfrax (2 or 3=20 of 1/8" thick sheets) with stainless facing seems appropriate fo= r the=20 300 series.  It not only protects the glass resin, but also the woode= n=20 plywood firewall core.
 
Perhaps this would work with some tailoring for those with exhau= st=20 tunnels - On the other hand, the turbine firewall is a piece of 3-D abstra= ct=20 art. 
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 12/20/2009 6:51:33 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 colyncase@earthlink.net writes:
Bad data alert!!! (par= don the=20 email yelling Scotty).
 
The data below is for 3m Nextel ceramic= =20 cloth.   I have not been able to obtain any hot side/cold side= data=20 for the Thermo-Lag 3000 or any other intumescent.
 
My take away so far is that you need to= build=20 something that has high insulating properties and will hang together to= the=20 cold side temp of the barrier whatever you are=20 using.....        So depending on wha= t you=20 use for a barrier you still have to deal with 500 dF to 1000 dF.<= /DIV>
 
Anyone have a suggestion?  = =20
 
 
----- Original Message -----
= From:=20 Jim Nordin
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009= 2:36=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Intumescent firw= all=20 coating

And now with= the data=20 of hot/cold side temperatures for intumescents, I may have to go back= to the=20 stainless/fiberfrax as the preferred combination although I don=E2=80= =99t have any=20 data on that at all.

It may be I ha= ve to=20 put an intumescent coating on top of the stainless/fiberfrax original= or=20 under those. My firewall is glass/plywood/glass so it might not be as= scary=20 as softening honeycomb. Yeah, I think I=E2=80=99ll believe that so I= can move=20 forward. Feel much better now.

Jim

=  

From= :=20 Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of mikeeasley
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009= 9:52=20 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Intumescent= firwall=20 coating

Colyn,

=

It seems that the firewa= ll=20 blanket has to serve two purposes, one to keep the fire from penetrati= ng the=20 firewall, and two to keep the heat from softening the firewall. = If I=20 read the chart correctly, you would start softening the firewall at ab= out=20 500F in the engine compartment, since the 3M material cuts the temp in= about=20 half.

Mike=20 Easley

In a message dated 12/18/09 08:19:52 Mountai= n=20 Standard Time, colyncase@earthlink.net writes:

Here's a document of= the sort=20 I was hoping to find for the intumescent paint.

It shows hot face vs.= cold=20 face temperature.

Based on the original,= it=20 seems to me that is the worry.   e.g. the firewall gets so= ft=20 somewhere above 250.

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/pdfs/hotface_c= old%20face.pdf

the home page is=20 here:

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/materials/fa= bric_312_aero.html

 

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