X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:04:43 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4012043 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:07:29 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.147; envelope-from=VTAILJEFF@aol.com Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id nB9F6fYo028632 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:06:41 -0500 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id q.be9.64de41fd (43845) for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.154]) by cia-dc04.mx.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC042-5c3c4b1fbcf1115; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:06:36 -0500 Received: from webmail-d052 (webmail-d052.sim.aol.com [205.188.168.25]) by smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDB032-5c3c4b1fbcf1115; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Addenendum...RE: [LML] Re: basic aerobatics in a 360 X-Original-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 66.220.104.170 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CC46F84FB12464_8AFC_2681B_webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 29644-STANDARD Received: from 66.220.104.170 by webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com (205.188.168.25) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CC46F84FA53D84-8AFC-130BD@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: VTAILJEFF@aol.com ----------MB_8CC46F84FB12464_8AFC_2681B_webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hmmmmm I have to say lazy-eights are a lot more fun when started rom 100ft, not 1500 :) I am also going to guess they're considerably asier, because there is no mistaking what 0ft looks like, whereas 1500ft ooks much like 1300, 1500, or 1700ft. I love being able to sense the rate f closure to the water and timing the smooth pull so that the plane levels ut precisely where you want it. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Mitchell To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 7:12 am Subject: [LML] Addenendum...RE: [LML] Re: basic aerobatics in a 360=20 Keith, Response #2. ust read this e-mail.... =20 Do not attempt any maneuver with anything loose in the cockpit, not even nything in your pockets. That's why flight suits have zippers on all the ockets. Car keys in particular can lodge in controls and have caused everal fatal accidents. Part of an aerobatic pre-flight must be to crawl n the back and look for loose objects, nuts wrenches, etc. The most ritical area for something to lodge would be the elevator bob weight. Best thing you could do is get some instruction from a Lancair pilot amiliar with aerobatics or better yet get a few hours in a Pitts or imilar. Bob Mitchell -----Original Message----- rom: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Keit= h mith ent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:17 AM o: lml ubject: [LML] Re: basic aerobatics in a 360 On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Bill Kennedy rote: I've always though the lazy-eight is a great maneuver with the Lancair, and I've=20 never experienced any hickup doing them. I've only just started reading the commercial maneuvers section, but as it urns out, I've also been enjoying lazy-eights for some time in the Lancair ) I usually gain 900-1000ft at the 90deg point, and then trade it all bac= k y the end of the 180. It feels like a very natural way to stretch the leg= s f the airplane without a great deal of stress on the pilot/airframe, or an= y brupt change in direction. > Add slow flight maneuvering to your regimen. It's a great way to stall= =20 proof yourself and make your coordinated control inputs nearly nstinctive. Agreed. I've been flying at a range of airspeeds, sometimes during nstrument approaches, but also when puttering around VFR. The range of peeds with which the airplane can fly is really quite amazing. > Most of the non-normal flight maneuvers I do are limited to=20 lazy-eights (they're a thing of beauty), chaundels (sp), and extreme=20 slow-flight. They all have a very direct pay-off in developing a real=20 feel for the airplane at very low risk. I'm going to start formally practicing the commercial maneuvers (I've done ost of them from time to time, but I think it's time to bring a bit more ocus to them). I have to say lazy-eights are a lot more fun when started rom 100ft, not 1500 :) I am also going to guess they're considerably asier, because there is no mistaking what 0ft looks like, whereas 1500ft ooks much like 1300, 1500, or 1700ft. I love being able to sense the rate f closure to the water and timing the smooth pull so that the plane levels ut precisely where you want it. Statistics suggest that there are significant risks involved for you=20 doing this stuff. Make sure it pays off. Absolutely, it's not something I'm approaching lightly. The other day, I ook the plane out to the place where I intended to try my first roll, but= I idn't pull the trigger. I didn't feel completely prepared, and I wasn't ositive that I successfully maintain positive G. I was concerned that the abin (which had a lot of loose items) would get pretty chaotic. So, I crapped the plan and decided to seek some advice here first, AND prepare he cabin for next time (removing all loose items, per the POH and common ense). If I was more proficient, I would say that maneuvers which maintain positi= ve wouldn't require a barren cabin, if the pilot has the experience (which= I o not, yet). Thanks for the insight, Bill! Keith -- or archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html - or archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ----------MB_8CC46F84FB12464_8AFC_2681B_webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" hmmmmm
=
I have to say lazy-eights are a lot more fun when started
from 100ft, not 1500 :)  I am also going to guess they're considerably
easier, because there is no mistaking what 0ft looks like, whereas 1500ft
looks much like 1300, 1500, or 1700ft.  I love being able to sense the rat=
e
of closure to the water and timing the smooth pull so that the plane level=
s
out precisely where you want it.



-----Orig= inal Message-----
From: Robert Mitchell <rmitch1@hughes.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 7:12 am
Subject: [LML] Addenendum...RE: [LML] Re: basic aerobatics in a 360 

 Ke=
ith,

Response #2.
Just read this e-mail.... =20

Do not attempt any maneuver with anything loose in the cockpit, not even
anything in your pockets.  That's why flight suits have zippers on all the
pockets. Car keys in particular can lodge in controls and have caused
several fatal accidents.  Part of an aerobatic pre-flight must be to crawl
in the back and look for loose objects, nuts wrenches, etc.  The most
critical area for something to lodge would be the elevator bob weight.

Best thing you could do is get some instruction from a Lancair pilot
familiar with aerobatics or better yet get a few hours in a Pitts or
similar.

Bob Mitchell

-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List [mail=
to:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Keith
Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:17 AM
To: lml
Subject: [LML] Re: basic aerobatics in a 360

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Bill Kennedy <bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I've always
> though the lazy-eight is a great maneuver with the Lancair, and I've=
=20
>never  experienced any hickup doing them.

I've only just started reading the commercial maneuvers section, but as it
turns out, I've also been enjoying lazy-eights for some time in the Lancai=
r
:)  I usually gain 900-1000ft at the 90deg point, and then trade it all ba=
ck
by the end of the 180.  It feels like a very natural way to stretch the le=
gs
of the airplane without a great deal of stress on the pilot/airframe, or=
 any
abrupt change in direction.

> Add slow flight maneuvering to your regimen. It's a great way to stal=
l=20
> proof yourself and make your coordinated control inputs nearly
instinctive.

Agreed. I've been flying at a range of airspeeds, sometimes during
instrument approaches, but also when puttering around VFR.  The range of
speeds with which the airplane can fly is really quite amazing.

> Most of the non-normal flight maneuvers I do are limited to=20
> lazy-eights (they're a thing of beauty), chaundels (sp), and extreme=
=20
> slow-flight. They all have a very direct pay-off in developing a real=
=20
> feel for the airplane at very low risk.

I'm going to start formally practicing the commercial maneuvers (I've done
most of them from time to time, but I think it's time to bring a bit more
focus to them).  I have to say lazy-eights are a lot more fun when started
from 100ft, not 1500 :)  I am also going to guess they're considerably
easier, because there is no mistaking what 0ft looks like, whereas 1500ft
looks much like 1300, 1500, or 1700ft.  I love being able to sense the rat=
e
of closure to the water and timing the smooth pull so that the plane level=
s
out precisely where you want it.
>
> Statistics suggest that there are significant risks involved for you=
=20
> doing this stuff. Make sure it pays off.

Absolutely, it's not something I'm approaching lightly.  The other day, I
took the plane out to the place where I intended to try my first roll, but=
 I
didn't pull the trigger. I didn't feel completely prepared, and I wasn't
positive that I successfully maintain positive G. I was concerned that the
cabin (which had a lot of loose items) would get pretty chaotic.  So, I
scrapped the plan and decided to seek some advice here first, AND prepare
the cabin for next time (removing all loose items, per the POH and common
sense).

If I was more proficient, I would say that maneuvers which maintain positi=
ve
G wouldn't  require a barren cabin, if the pilot has the experience (which=
 I
do not, yet).

Thanks for the insight, Bill!

Keith

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