X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: <marv@lancaironline.net> Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net> To: lml Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:16:31 -0500 Message-ID: <redirect-4010696@logan.com> X-Original-Return-Path: <randystuart@hotmail.com> Received: from blu0-omc3-s21.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4010169 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:19:00 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.116.96; envelope-from=randystuart@hotmail.com Received: from BLU0-SMTP55 ([65.55.116.73]) by blu0-omc3-s21.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:18:20 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [76.194.229.173] X-Originating-Email: [randystuart@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP55568CFCE3FBA29689887FBA8F0@phx.gbl> X-Original-Return-Path: randystuart@hotmail.com Received: from laptop ([76.194.229.173]) by BLU0-SMTP55.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:18:19 -0800 From: "Randy" <randystuart@hotmail.com> X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" <lml@lancaironline.net> References: <list-4010129@logan.com> Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number X-Original-Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:18:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0241_01CA7782.CC531050" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2009 05:18:20.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB15C4A0:01CA77C5] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0241_01CA7782.CC531050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul,=20 I guess there's a difference between macho and nerve. I'm not macho. Randy Stuart LNC-2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: PTACKABURY@aol.com=20 To: lml=20 Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:06 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number In a message dated 12/7/2009 6:57:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, = randystuart@hotmail.com writes: Lancair is vigilant concerning service bulletins, it's in their best = interest. =20 Randy: Really??? The last LIV service bulletin was issued on 8 Aug = '03. None of their service bulletins or notices or info-mercials deal = with accidents, probable cause (other than the tried and true "lack of = training"), or exceeding Vne. If you are relying on Joe's company to = keep your butt out of trouble as you randomly push the edge of your = envelope, you are one brave soul. This macho stuff has been interesting, but also disturbing. When = mother Air Force was paying me to explore the unknown (after = accumulating an engineering BS, masters, several thousand fighter hours, = 300 combat missions, a year attending test pilot school at Edwards, a = few years teaching at same, more supervision than you can dream of, = months in simulators, decades of meetings with project engineers and = managers, etc) people were always watching screens and charts when ever = I did anything to insure I was NOT entering uncharted waters = unknowingly. The overriding theory was in case of a major accident they = could always replace me, but another one of a kind test airplane was = hard to find. And still we had problems: a fine colleague discovered = that a rolling pull out in a F-117 excited a yet unseen flutter mode in = the verticals which caused one to disintegrate in nano-seconds. = Fortunately an earlier increase in the area of the verticals (actually = slanty things on the back of the bird) to add directional stiffness = provided enough control power for him to safely return to base, kiss the = ground and review the data. And yet I read here from one of your fellow = fearless pilots about pushing his toy Lancair to 300mph INDICATED = (WOW!!) and pulling 7.5gs (WOW again!!). Yea someone put sandbags on = wings once on a bird built when Reagan was president and declared +9, -6 = just dandy so you all have fun out there. Well get a little aileron in = that pull to 9 (or 7.5) gs and you will be in a very untested regime. = Check the materials used in the construction of that early LNC and = your's and learn not everything is the same. Compare empty weights, = equipment lists, fuel loading and learn some more. Now Randy, you seem dead set on continuing your Bravo. OK, but I = would emplore the rest of our aviation world to think long and hard = before deciding to go where no one has gone before. Planes and aviation = are complex. +9, -6 G limits come with lots of conditions, as the above = was met to illustrate, as do the rest of the Lancair published and = builder established limits (yes you the builder should have an = operations manual with your particular plane's tested limits before you = invite anyone else aboard) like Vne, or limits on acro. Your plane is = indeed unique, and so is your skill so treat both with care and dial = back the macho. Remember: kids are always watching... paul, LIV N94PT and others ------=_NextPart_000_0241_01CA7782.CC531050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18852"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" = id=3Drole_body=20 bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 = bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Paul,=20 </FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4 face=3D"Arial Narrow">I guess there's a = difference=20 between macho and nerve. I'm not macho.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4=20 face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Randy=20 Stuart</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4=20 face=3D"Arial Narrow">LNC-2</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 dir=3Dltr> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DPTACKABURY@aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:PTACKABURY@aol.com">PTACKABURY@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dlml=20 href=3D"mailto:lml">lml</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 07, 2009 = 9:06=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a = meaningless number</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = face=3DArial> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 12/7/2009 6:57:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, = <A=20 href=3D"mailto:randystuart@hotmail.com">randystuart@hotmail.com</A>=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: = 5px"><FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D4=20 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Lancair is vigilant concerning service = bulletins, it's=20 in their best interest. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Randy: Really??? The last LIV service bulletin was = issued on=20 8 Aug '03. None of their service bulletins or notices or = info-mercials=20 deal with accidents, probable cause (other than the tried and true = "lack of=20 training"), or exceeding Vne. If you are relying on Joe's = company to=20 keep your butt out of trouble as you randomly push the edge of your = envelope,=20 you are one brave soul.</DIV> <DIV>This macho stuff has been interesting, but also disturbing. = When=20 mother Air Force was paying me to explore the unknown (after = accumulating an=20 engineering BS, masters, several thousand fighter hours, 300 combat = missions,=20 a year attending test pilot school at Edwards, a few years teaching at = same,=20 more supervision than you can dream of, months in simulators, decades = of=20 meetings with project engineers and managers, etc) people were always = watching=20 screens and charts when ever I did anything to insure I was NOT = entering=20 uncharted waters unknowingly. The overriding = theory was in=20 case of a major accident they could always replace me, but another one = of a=20 kind test airplane was hard to find. And still we had = problems: a=20 fine colleague discovered that a rolling pull out in a = F-117 excited a=20 yet unseen flutter mode in the verticals which caused one to = disintegrate=20 in nano-seconds. Fortunately an earlier increase in the area of = the=20 verticals (actually slanty things on the back of the bird) to add = directional=20 stiffness provided enough control power for him to safely return to = base, kiss=20 the ground and review the data. And yet I read here from one of = your=20 fellow fearless pilots about pushing his toy Lancair to 300mph=20 INDICATED (WOW!!) and pulling 7.5gs (WOW again!!). Yea = someone put=20 sandbags on wings once on a bird built when Reagan was president and = declared=20 +9, -6 just dandy so you all have fun out there. Well get a = little=20 aileron in that pull to 9 (or 7.5) gs and you will be in a very = untested=20 regime. Check the materials used in the construction of that = early LNC=20 and your's and learn not everything is the same. Compare empty = weights,=20 equipment lists, fuel loading and learn some more.</DIV> <DIV>Now Randy, you seem dead set on continuing your = Bravo. OK,=20 but I would emplore the rest of our aviation world to think = long and=20 hard before deciding to go where no one has gone before. Planes = and=20 aviation are complex. +9, -6 G limits come with lots of = conditions,=20 as the above was met to illustrate, as do the rest of the Lancair = published and builder established limits (yes you the builder should = have an=20 operations manual with your particular plane's tested limits before = you invite=20 anyone else aboard) like Vne, or limits on acro. Your plane is = indeed=20 unique, and so is your skill so treat both with care and dial = back=20 the macho. Remember: kids are always watching...</DIV> <DIV>paul, LIV N94PT and others</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0241_01CA7782.CC531050--