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To:  lml
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:16:31 -0500
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From: "Randy" <randystuart@hotmail.com>
References: <list-4010129@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number
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Paul,=20
I guess there's a difference between macho and nerve. I'm not macho.

Randy Stuart
LNC-2
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: PTACKABURY@aol.com=20
  To: lml=20
  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:06 PM
  Subject: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number



  In a message dated 12/7/2009 6:57:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, =
randystuart@hotmail.com writes:
    Lancair is vigilant concerning service bulletins, it's in their best =
interest. =20


  Randy:  Really???  The last LIV service bulletin was issued on 8 Aug =
'03.  None of their service bulletins or notices or info-mercials deal =
with accidents, probable cause (other than the tried and true "lack of =
training"), or exceeding Vne.  If you are relying on Joe's company to =
keep your butt out of trouble as you randomly push the edge of your =
envelope, you are one brave soul.
  This macho stuff has been interesting, but also disturbing.  When =
mother Air Force was paying me to explore the unknown (after =
accumulating an engineering BS, masters, several thousand fighter hours, =
300 combat missions, a year attending test pilot school at Edwards, a =
few years teaching at same, more supervision than you can dream of, =
months in simulators, decades of meetings with project engineers and =
managers, etc) people were always watching screens and charts when ever =
I did anything to insure I was NOT entering uncharted waters =
unknowingly.  The overriding theory was in case of a major accident they =
could always replace me, but another one of a kind test airplane was =
hard to find.  And still we had problems: a fine colleague discovered =
that a rolling pull out in a F-117 excited a yet unseen flutter mode in =
the verticals which caused one to disintegrate in nano-seconds.  =
Fortunately an earlier increase in the area of the verticals (actually =
slanty things on the back of the bird) to add directional stiffness =
provided enough control power for him to safely return to base, kiss the =
ground and review the data.  And yet I read here from one of your fellow =
fearless pilots about pushing his toy Lancair to 300mph INDICATED =
(WOW!!) and pulling 7.5gs (WOW again!!).  Yea someone put sandbags on =
wings once on a bird built when Reagan was president and declared +9, -6 =
just dandy so you all have fun out there.  Well get a little aileron in =
that pull to 9 (or 7.5) gs and you will be in a very untested regime.  =
Check the materials used in the construction of that early LNC and =
your's and learn not everything is the same.  Compare empty weights, =
equipment lists, fuel loading and learn some more.
  Now Randy, you seem dead set on continuing your Bravo.  OK, but I =
would emplore the rest of our aviation world to think long and hard =
before deciding to go where no one has gone before.  Planes and aviation =
are complex.  +9, -6 G limits come with lots of conditions, as the above =
was met to illustrate, as do the rest of the Lancair published and =
builder established limits (yes you the builder should have an =
operations manual with your particular plane's tested limits before you =
invite anyone else aboard) like Vne, or limits on acro.  Your plane is =
indeed unique, and so is your skill so treat both with care and dial =
back the macho.  Remember: kids are always watching...
  paul, LIV N94PT and others




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18852">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" =
id=3Drole_body=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 =
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Paul,=20
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4 face=3D"Arial Narrow">I guess there's a =
difference=20
between macho and nerve. I'm not macho.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT></EM></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Randy=20
Stuart</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3D4=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow">LNC-2</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DPTACKABURY@aol.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:PTACKABURY@aol.com">PTACKABURY@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dlml=20
  href=3D"mailto:lml">lml</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 07, 2009 =
9:06=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a =

  meaningless number</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 =
face=3DArial>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>In a message dated 12/7/2009 6:57:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, =
<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:randystuart@hotmail.com">randystuart@hotmail.com</A>=20
writes:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D4=20
    face=3D"Arial Narrow">Lancair is vigilant concerning service =
bulletins, it's=20
    in their best interest. &nbsp;</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Randy:&nbsp; Really???&nbsp; The last LIV service bulletin was =
issued on=20
  8 Aug '03.&nbsp; None of their service bulletins or notices or =
info-mercials=20
  deal with accidents, probable cause (other than the tried and true =
"lack of=20
  training"), or exceeding Vne.&nbsp; If you are relying on Joe's =
company to=20
  keep your butt out of trouble as you randomly push the edge of your =
envelope,=20
  you are one brave soul.</DIV>
  <DIV>This macho stuff has been interesting, but also disturbing.&nbsp; =
When=20
  mother Air Force was paying me to explore the unknown (after =
accumulating an=20
  engineering BS, masters, several thousand fighter hours, 300 combat =
missions,=20
  a year attending test pilot school at Edwards, a few years teaching at =
same,=20
  more supervision than you can dream of, months in simulators, decades =
of=20
  meetings with project engineers and managers, etc) people were always =
watching=20
  screens and charts when ever I did anything to insure I was NOT =
entering=20
  uncharted waters unknowingly.&nbsp; The&nbsp;overriding =
theory&nbsp;was in=20
  case of a major accident they could always replace me, but another one =
of a=20
  kind test airplane was hard to find.&nbsp; And still we had =
problems:&nbsp;a=20
  fine colleague discovered that a rolling pull out in a =
F-117&nbsp;excited a=20
  yet unseen flutter mode in the verticals which caused&nbsp;one to =
disintegrate=20
  in nano-seconds.&nbsp; Fortunately an earlier increase in the area of =
the=20
  verticals (actually slanty things on the back of the bird) to add =
directional=20
  stiffness provided enough control power for him to safely return to =
base, kiss=20
  the ground and review the data.&nbsp; And yet I read here from one of =
your=20
  fellow fearless pilots about pushing his toy Lancair to 300mph=20
  INDICATED&nbsp;(WOW!!) and pulling 7.5gs (WOW again!!).&nbsp; Yea =
someone put=20
  sandbags on wings once on a bird built when Reagan was president and =
declared=20
  +9, -6 just dandy so you all have fun out there.&nbsp; Well get a =
little=20
  aileron in that pull to 9 (or 7.5) gs and you will be in a very =
untested=20
  regime.&nbsp; Check the materials used in the construction of that =
early LNC=20
  and your's and learn not everything is the same.&nbsp; Compare empty =
weights,=20
  equipment lists, fuel loading and learn some more.</DIV>
  <DIV>Now Randy, you seem dead set on continuing your =
Bravo.&nbsp;&nbsp;OK,=20
  but&nbsp;I would emplore the rest of&nbsp;our aviation world to think =
long and=20
  hard before deciding to go where no one has gone before.&nbsp; Planes =
and=20
  aviation&nbsp;are complex. &nbsp;+9, -6 G limits come with lots of =
conditions,=20
  as the above was met to illustrate, as&nbsp;do the rest of the Lancair =

  published and builder established limits (yes you the builder should =
have an=20
  operations manual with your particular plane's tested limits before =
you invite=20
  anyone else aboard) like Vne, or limits on acro.&nbsp; Your plane is =
indeed=20
  unique, and so is your&nbsp;skill so treat both with care and dial =
back=20
  the&nbsp;macho.&nbsp; Remember:&nbsp;kids are always watching...</DIV>
  <DIV>paul, LIV N94PT and others</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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