X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 08:59:33 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp106.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.229.99] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with SMTP id 3673636 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:30:02 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.229.99; envelope-from=rjones2000@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 2072 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2009 06:29:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; b=VYrg9CHwI0jiHjeDAqaRABgvGY1W0h6gsU5zKnBQLA49z1he5FSylZHbwsKUceU1yLC2lXG3wkOm35StX4ncJYAZj9QFp94QeaEMW0H7RRNAjGdudNFvynY6jkrgBJlpuEvvQ/70Qivydzc2X+7tVzu6uLbCXnkISJDzDp5pe4w= ; Received: from unknown (HELO VaioLaptop) (rjones2000@62.50.199.11 with login) by smtp106.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2009 06:29:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OGiZMHsVM1mtU8gm93xz6xPsw2NkzeyYpHm_k2ZFZEbt5iOVX5Hmd36FtaAnGfXpNglTApFlDXexdE4a8k3VO6k2uzXzmHwSZ8AYJ8.2dqvU3eXTPZy7GQC8cgwPe0oBWpGVPxw5K5XRhpGbyuXMsWmcpauNwEIatord3h4KGl5Wn5cLNso1jDQcHwcmE0zGx_N6_1WRbX8pFaBpHkDVoKpFJvCL0GRIcJ2IJUh6Ok.mqp_AqxPrn6kTSgWwn9w6pZnNi5uIeextXjK4_SROxBEE6CvKeR97rUFRQRg2_pKd0oE.Pl4tpBur..QwEG98w3Td.gsTSYV3SpzjoVIi_ky2I9OA X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Ron Jones" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Legacy Winglets X-Original-Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:29:16 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <009701c9e670$1e6c00d0$5b440270$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01C9E635.720D28D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acnk/pr/jI9hbhZ4R6u5RRHUJOQsBwBbxypA Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C9E635.720D28D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We did extensive before and after testing of our Legacy winglets. The results were good. No two experimental airplanes are identical. Airframe, engine/propeller combinations, total weight, test weather conditions and even builder skill sets vary from one airplane to another, therefore individual results will vary. Nevertheless, our test results clearly indicate that, if properly installed, significant performance improvements can be expected during takeoff, climb, cruise, approach and landing, but particularly during cruise. We also collected data using our AOA. We did document that the deck angle was lowered, unlike the testing with Lancair IV winglets. We theorized that this lowering of deck angle is what leads to an increase in cruise speed. In any case, the deck angle did, indeed, lower and the TAS did, indeed, increase. We found our best speed gain was around 14,000 feet. We started gaining airspeed at around 9,000 feet. We conducted our tests up to 17,500, beginning at 7,500. We found that we have better aileron response in the low speed regime, particularly useful in gusty landing conditions. Stall speed was slightly reduced. While we couldn't measure or detect a reduction in roll rate, the roll did seem to be "smoother". Most of us builders think we will mostly use the Legacy like other airplanes, i.e., we will fly it at about 7 or 8,000 feet, but once we are flying, rather than building, we soon learn that the combination of the Legacy wing, a three-bladed prop, and big IO-500 gain a great amount of efficiency up in the teens. We gain a significantly better (lower) fuel flow, while the TAS falls off only slightly (unlike a spam can). I am very happy with my winglets as the teens is exactly where they are the most helpful. If you plan to do a lot of traveling with your Legacy and speed and fuel burn matter, then you should consider our winglets. We conservatively suggest a 5 knot improvement in TAS in the teens, but we achieved much better on some test flights, and the average gain with our Legacy was more. Your mileage may vary, of course. Since we manufacture and sell Legacy winglets, take all of the above with a grain of salt! J Happy Building, Ron Jones Legacy Innovations www.legacy-innovations.com ron@leggacy-innovations.com From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:23 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: L360 winglets I am building a Legacy, and had the same questions. Lancair says no, matter of fact supposedly, some people have been cutting them off of IV-P's. The guy that is making the kits swears by them, and several people who have installed them like them. When you install them, you also have to put in the recessed light/strobes into the tips, another expense. We talked it over, and did a lot of research, as most commercial and military AC have them now, but were basically told that you had to get real high, and real fast for them to become effective. So, for now, we will not install them as the AE's at Lancair would surely have been offering them if they had any benefit. We will fly in primer for a while, so have the option to install later, if somehow it is proven that it is worth the effort and expense. Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG in progress ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob & Kay Stevens To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:34 PM Subject: [LML] L360 winglets I am building a L360 in Australia, and will soon have to make the decision about what wing tips to use. The kit comes with the standard tips. However, I have seen some Lancairs with winglets, and am wondering whether they are worth the investment in time and money. Has anyone out there in LML land done any research into the benefits of winglets? I am interested particularly in before and after comparisons, both in terms of speed and general handling. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Rob Stevens Perth, Western Australia. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C9E635.720D28D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We did extensive before and after testing of our Legacy winglets. The = results were good. No two experimental airplanes are identical.  Airframe, engine/propeller combinations, total weight, test weather conditions and even builder = skill sets vary from one airplane to another, therefore individual results will = vary.  Nevertheless, our test results clearly indicate that, if properly = installed, significant performance improvements can be expected during takeoff, = climb, cruise, approach and landing, but particularly during = cruise.

 

We also collected data using our AOA. We did document that the deck angle = was lowered, unlike the testing with Lancair IV winglets. We theorized that = this lowering of deck angle is what leads to an increase in cruise speed. In any case, = the deck angle did, indeed, lower and the TAS did, indeed, = increase.

 

We found our best speed gain was around 14,000 feet. We started gaining = airspeed at around 9,000 feet. We conducted our tests up to 17,500, beginning at = 7,500.

 

We found that we have better aileron response in the low speed regime, particularly useful in gusty landing conditions.

 

Stall speed was slightly reduced. While we couldn’t measure or detect a = reduction in roll rate, the roll did seem to be = “smoother”.

 

Most of us builders think we will mostly use the Legacy like other airplanes, = i.e., we will fly it at about 7 or 8,000 feet, but once we are flying, rather = than building, we soon learn that the combination of the Legacy wing, a = three-bladed prop, and big IO-500 gain a great amount of efficiency up in the teens. = We gain a significantly better (lower) fuel flow, while the TAS falls off only = slightly (unlike a spam can). I am very happy with my winglets as the teens is = exactly where they are the most helpful.

 

If you plan to do a lot of traveling with your Legacy and speed and fuel = burn matter, then you should consider our winglets. We conservatively suggest = a 5 knot improvement in TAS in the teens, but we achieved much better on = some test flights, and the average gain with our Legacy was more. Your mileage may = vary, of course.

 

Since we manufacture and sell Legacy winglets, take all of the above with a = grain of salt! J

 

Happy Building,

 

Ron Jones

Legacy Innovations

www.legacy-innovations.com=

ron@leggacy-innovations.com

 

From:= Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:23 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: L360 winglets

 

I am = building a Legacy, and had the same questions.  Lancair says no, matter of = fact supposedly, some people have been cutting them off of IV-P's.  The = guy that is making the kits swears by them, and several people who have = installed them like them.  When you install them, you also have to put in the recessed light/strobes into the tips, another expense.  We talked = it over, and did a lot of research, as most commercial and military AC have them = now, but were basically told that you had to get real high, and real fast for = them to become effective.  So, for now, we will not install them as the = AE's at Lancair would surely have been offering them if they had any = benefit.  We will fly in primer for a while, so have the option to install later, if = somehow it is proven that it is worth the effort and = expense.

Greg = Ward

Lancair = 20B N178RG in progress

----- Original Message -----

Sent:<= /b> Wednesday, = June 03, 2009 3:34 PM

Subject: [LML] L360 = winglets

 

I am building a L360 in Australia, and will soon have to make the decision = about what wing tips to use. The kit comes with the standard tips. However, I = have seen some Lancairs with winglets, and am wondering whether they are = worth the investment in time and money. Has anyone out there in LML land done any research into the benefits of winglets? I am interested particularly in = before and after comparisons, both in terms of speed and general = handling.

 

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Rob Stevens

 

Perth, Western Australia.

------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C9E635.720D28D0--