X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:30:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.67] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3642814 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:23:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.67; envelope-from=douglasbrunner@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=AlpwQcdi9tFFZPWypR/M6EHTiZ7pNs49mDS+dlfmDVPrwMPLi6fa3M4myVqOls2R; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [74.93.196.177] (helo=DougsLaptop) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1M4m8m-0002pA-Ro for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:23:13 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <13BB1613DD354851923BF57605EEC252@DougsLaptop> From: "Douglas Brunner" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Latest chapter - Performance Engines - and oil analysis X-Original-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:22:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01C9D4DA.17AC32D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-ELNK-Trace: ad85a799c4f5de37c2eb1477c196d22294f5150ab1c16ac00c3604e638927e74767338b4285cb8f4ccd8a6bf3d5ea28e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 74.93.196.177 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C9D4DA.17AC32D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some experience with oil analysis in Continental engines. I had a Mooney Ovation 2 with an IO-550G engine. I did regular oil = analyses and at 600 hours came up with an abnormal result. It turned = out that the lifters had detiorated and were starting to damage the cam. = The engine was "making metal". I had to have cam and lifters replaced. = (by the way Continental did next to nothing for me.) Based on this experience, I do think that oil analysis is worthwhile. = Just my $ 0.02 D. Brunner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frederick Moreno=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: [LML] Latest chapter - Performance Engines - and oil analysis Stuart wrote that pistons have been shipped from PE to me via FEDEX. = I checked the tracking number supplied. They are enroute across the = Pacific and should arrive May 19. =20 He also requested that I send my cylinders to PE for repair. When I = responded that I had already shipped cylinders to ECI for repair, he = asked for a copy of the ECI invoice to pay from. I responded with the = quotation from ECI. The cylinders are currently winging their way to = ECI in Texas. We are heading in the right direction.=20 As to the question about oil analysis and pistons: I have not done oil = analysis. I am not sure it is a readily available option here in = Australia, and years of oil analysis on my TR-182 failed to provide much = useful information since virtually all problems that occurred over a = 2000 hour TBO run were at the top end (exhaust valves, exhaust = manifolds, turbos). Oil analysis gave no indication of these problems = which surfaced at annual inspections. I did pull and disassemble the oil filters on my Lancair IO-550. = First oil filter was pulled at 25 hours after the mineral oil run. Most = of what appeared on the paper and appeared to be shiny metal was in fact = shiny carbon bits, and the small amounts of metal (probably aluminum) = found using jeweller's glasses was within guidelines for first run = engines. (Lycoming has an excellent technical paper on what to look for = and how to interpret oil filter debris.) There was no magnetic material = present. The second oil filter was pulled at 67 hours and had virtually = no metal visible to the eye aided with four power jeweller's glasses and = a 500 watt light. I put the filter elements in plastic baggies and = marked them so I can compare with others in the future. While the pistons had suffered various degrees of scuffing and the = cylinder Cerma-Nil plating was visually scored (not deep enough to = feel), the piston rings all looked pristine and seemed to take it all in = stride. The new piston rings used in the Cerma-Nil cylinders are moly = coated and apparently quite tough and wear resistant. They appeared = barely broken in and had a nice polished appearance on wear surfaces. = However, the compression ring groove width clearance was found to be = 0.009 on all pistons. . The groove clearance spec is 0.0015 to 0.004. = Therein lay the source of the ring flutter problem. =20 The pistons were remarkably consistent. Ring end gap clearances were = right on the money with the second ring end gap about 25% greater than = the compression ring gap, as per current recommended practices. It was = the piston to cylinder bore clearance that was insufficient for the = forged pistons. Fred Moreno ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C9D4DA.17AC32D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some experience with oil analysis = in=20 Continental engines.
 
I had a Mooney Ovation 2 with an = IO-550G=20 engine.  I did regular oil analyses and at 600 hours came up with = an=20 abnormal result.  It turned out that the lifters had detiorated and = were=20 starting to damage the cam.  The engine was "making metal". =20 I had to have cam and lifters = replaced.  (by=20 the way Continental did next to nothing for me.)
 
Based on this experience, I do think = that oil=20 analysis is worthwhile.  Just my $ 0.02
 
D. Brunner
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Frederick Moreno =
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 = 7:52=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Latest chapter - = Performance Engines - and oil analysis

Stuart wrote that = pistons have=20 been shipped from PE to me via FEDEX.  I checked the tracking = number=20 supplied.  They are enroute across the Pacific and should arrive = May=20 19. 

 

He also requested that = I send my=20 cylinders to PE for repair.  When I responded that I had already = shipped=20 cylinders to ECI for repair, he asked for a copy of the ECI invoice to = pay=20 from.  I responded with the quotation from ECI.  The = cylinders are=20 currently winging their way to ECI in Texas.

 

We are heading in the = right=20 direction.

 

As to the question about = oil=20 analysis and pistons: I have not done oil analysis.  I am not = sure it is=20 a readily available option here in Australia, and years of oil = analysis on my=20 TR-182 failed to provide much useful information since virtually all = problems=20 that occurred over a 2000 hour TBO run were at the top end (exhaust = valves,=20 exhaust manifolds, turbos).  Oil analysis gave no indication of = these=20 problems which surfaced at annual inspections.

 

I did pull and = disassemble the oil=20 filters on my Lancair IO-550.  First oil filter was = pulled at 25=20 hours after the mineral oil run.  Most of what appeared on the = paper and=20 appeared to be shiny metal was in fact shiny carbon bits, and the = small=20 amounts of metal (probably aluminum) found using jeweller=92s glasses = was within=20 guidelines for first run engines.  (Lycoming has an excellent = technical=20 paper on what to look for and how to interpret oil filter = debris.)  There=20 was no magnetic material present.  The second oil filter was = pulled at 67=20 hours and had virtually no metal visible to the eye aided with four = power=20 jeweller=92s glasses and a 500 watt light.  I put the filter = elements in=20 plastic baggies and marked them so I can compare with others in the=20 future.

 

While the pistons had = suffered=20 various degrees of scuffing and the cylinder Cerma-Nil plating was = visually=20 scored (not deep enough to feel), the piston rings all looked pristine = and=20 seemed to take it all in stride.  The new piston rings used in = the=20 Cerma-Nil cylinders are moly coated and apparently quite tough and = wear=20 resistant.  They appeared barely broken in and had a nice = polished=20 appearance on wear surfaces.  However, the compression ring groove width = clearance=20 was found to be 0.009 on all pistons.  .  The groove = clearance spec=20 is 0.0015 to 0.004.  Therein lay the source of the ring flutter=20 problem. 

 

The pistons were = remarkably=20 consistent.  Ring end gap clearances were right on the money with = the=20 second ring end gap about 25% greater than the compression ring gap, = as per=20 current recommended practices.  It was the piston to cylinder = bore=20 clearance that was insufficient for the forged = pistons.

 

 

Fred=20 Moreno

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