C'mon Chuck, everyone's looking for a hero, and with
this guys gliding experience, he pulled it off. It could have been much
worse.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B N178RG in progress
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:54
AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] GEESE
Not
to pop the 'feel good' bubble of public heros or anything, but why am I a
little underwhelmed at the 'miraculous' performance of the USAir pilot?
To his credit, at least he remembered to NOT put his gear down. After
that, I'm having a hard time identifying heroic, let alone the miraculous
components to this 'incident'.
Chuck Jensen
Hello Matt,
As for altitudes geese and other birds fly high
and at night. See article from the USGS.
Migration of Birds
Migratory Flight Altitude
While factors regulating the heights at which birds migrate are not clear,
there are many obvious reasons why flying at higher altitudes may be
advantageous. High-altitude flight may be used to locate familiar landmarks,
fly over fog or clouds, surmount physical barriers, gain advantage of a
following wind, or maintain a better thermoregulatory balance.
In general, estimates of bird heights based on direct observation are
quite unreliable except under special conditions. A Eurasian Sparrowhawk
could be distinguished at 800 feet but disappeared from site at 2,800 feet.
A Rook (a European member of the crow family) could be recognized at 1,000
feet but disappeared from sight at 3,300 feet. An interesting experiment
with an inflated model of a vulture painted black with a wing span of 7 feet
10 inches illustrated similar limitations. When released from an airplane at
4,700 feet, it was barely visible and invisible without binoculars at 5,800
feet. At 7,000 feet it was not picked up even when 12 power binoculars were
used. Radar studies have demonstrated more accurately than human vision that
95 percent of the migratory movements occur at less than 10,000 feet, the
bulk of the movements occurring under 3,000 feet.
Yet birds do fly at higher altitudes. Bird flight at 20,000 feet, where
less than half the oxygen is present than at sea level, is impressive if
only because the work is achieved by living muscle tissue. A Himalayan
mountain climber at 16,000 feet was rather amazed when a flock of geese flew
northward about two miles over his head honking as they went. At 20,000 feet
a man has a hard time talking while running, but those geese were probably
flying at 27,000 feet and even calling while they traveled at this
tremendous height. Numerous other observations have come from the Himalayas.
Observers at 14,000 feet recorded storks and cranes flying so high that they
could be seen only through field glasses. In the same area large vultures
were seen soaring at 25,000 feet and an eagle carcass was found at 26,000
feet. The expedition to Mt. Everest in 1952 found skeletons of a Northern
Pintail and a Black-tailed Godwit at 16,400 feet on Khumbu Glacier.
Bar-headed Geese have been observed flying over the highest peaks (29,000+
feet) even though a 10,000-foot pass was nearby. Probably at least 30
species regularly cross these high passes. Other accurate records on
altitude of migratory flights are scanty, although altimeter observations
from airplanes and radar are becoming more frequent in the literature. For
example, a Mallard was struck by a commercial airliner at 21,000 feet over
the Nevada desert. Radar observations have revealed that birds on
long-distance flights fly at higher altitudes than short-distance migrants.
It has been hypothesized that advantageous tail winds of greater velocity
are found higher up and that the cooler air minimizes the demand for
evaporative water loss to regulate body temperature under the exertion of
flight. Radar studies also have shown that nocturnal migrants fly at
different altitudes at different times during the night. Birds generally
take off shortly after sundown and rapidly gain maximum altitude. This peak
is maintained until around midnight, then the travelers gradually descend
until daylight. Thus, there is considerable variation, but for most small
birds the favored altitude appears to be between 500 and 1,000 feet. Some
nocturnal migrants (probably shorebirds) fly over the ocean at 15,000 or
even 20,000 feet. Nocturnal migrants also fly slightly higher than diurnal
migrants. Observations made from lighthouses and other vantage points
indicate that certain migrants commonly travel at altitudes of very few feet
to a few hundred feet above sea or land. Sandpipers, Red-necked Phalaropes,
and various sea ducks have been seen flying so low they were visible only as
they topped a wave. Observers stationed at lighthouses and lightships off
the English coast have similarly recorded the passage of landbirds flying
just above the surface of the water and rarely rising above 200 feet over
the waves.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [LML] GEESE
Hello Matt,
In my experience, geese fly where and when they
choose. I flew IFR through Pennsylvania amid layers of clouds at
6,000'. ATC called out traffic. It was an eschelon of geese
above me. I flew VFR over Harford, Ct. at 2,000'. A Canada goose
was flying from left to right a few hundred feet above me. Just as it
passed the fuselage above it folded its wings and dove directly into my
right engine (Cessna 320). It damaged the spinner, propeller, nose
bowl, lower nacelle, engine cross over tube and deposited lots of itself in
the engine nacelle. I was watching it the whole time. I couldn't
maneuver the plane fast enough to avoid it. How could an
airliner? From that experience, I now aim at any goose or eschelon of
geese on an converging path, expecting them to dive out of the way as I
get closer.
Jabe Luttrell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:41
AM
Subject: [LML] GEESE
Opinion by Matt
Reeves:
FLOCKS OF GEESE FLY SLOW and
usually in a "V" shape, AND ARE EASY TO SEE ON A BLUE SKY DAY - AND ARE
sometimes DETECTABLE ON RADAR both on airplanes and on the
ground. Pilots WERE heros once plane hit the flock, but COULD
have the collision with geese been avoided and the answer may be
YES.
It is possible that NEITHER pilot was
looking straight out the window because the airplane was on an instrument flight plan = meaning,
controllers on the ground were responsible for aircraft
separation.
ALSO, this aircraft floated for enough
time to save the passengers and did not break apart mainly because of
pilot skill bringing it down to a shallow angle of impact at the slowest
possible airspeed above stall speed AND it is built out of CARBON FIBER
which is significantly LIGHTER and stronger than aluminum and more
flexible AND more seamless preventing instant flooding, thus saving lives
(sorry RV guys).
Baggage and landing gear compartments
sealed with air also helped buoyancy. PILOTS WERE HEROS in saving
lives, but the accident MAY have been avoidable simply by looking out the
window. Future geese avoidance may include horns
on aircraft, much like deer horns on cars, radar, and simply looking out
the window on the departure and arrival checklists.
This aircraft was on an IFR
flight plan meaning looking out the window was not required
by the pilots since the controllers on the ground were responsible for
separating aircraft. However, at low altitude, at geese flight levels, looking
out the window should be mandatory. Most geese do not fly in
clouds.
All points I have not seen reported.
What's
next? Billions in research and in the end, no changes except a Goose
Therapist Lady will make off with millions and will simply tell us the
geese are depressed that we are taking over their skies. And in the
end? I will marry
her.
Matt
marv@lancair.net wrote:
Posted
for David Standish <carbonflier@bresnan.net>:
That
being said I still need a couple more pilots to get Pete to come out to
Montana this summer. Montana is a great place to
fly. Lots of room for training. Billings is a
great small city. Yellowstone Park is nearby. And
a local FBO has agreed to discount fuel. Please contact
me if you are interested. David
Standish flypetezacc@aol.com
wrote: > ** > > The root problem is getting the
message out to those that think they > do not need
training. 43% of the accidents are people with less than
> 100 hours in type. But, there is a very large number
of accidents > from people with 5000-20000 hours. The
ease of receiving training has > never been easier I implore
those that do not need training to get it >
anyway! > > Grassroots effort. Go down the hangar row and
let the lancair pilot > know why its important to get training
from ANY qualified > instructor. help make 2009 the safest year
for Lancair pilots. > > Thank you, > > Peter
Zaccagnino > HP-AT.com, Inc > 1046 River Ave >
Flemington, NJ 08822 > 908 391 2001
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