X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:20:39 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with ESMTP id 3429394 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:58:01 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.48; envelope-from=jabeluttrell@comcast.net Received: from OMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.35]) by QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 4E2a1b0080ldTLk55FxSP4; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:57:26 +0000 Received: from JabesComputer ([75.74.178.89]) by OMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 4FxR1b00C1w6vkB3QFxRqp; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:57:26 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: From: "Jabe Luttrell" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] GEESE X-Original-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:57:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_039F_01C977C9.31F261F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_039F_01C977C9.31F261F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Matt, In my experience, geese fly where and when they choose. I flew IFR = through Pennsylvania amid layers of clouds at 6,000'. ATC called out = traffic. It was an eschelon of geese above me. I flew VFR over = Harford, Ct. at 2,000'. A Canada goose was flying from left to right a = few hundred feet above me. Just as it passed the fuselage above it = folded its wings and dove directly into my right engine (Cessna 320). = It damaged the spinner, propeller, nose bowl, lower nacelle, engine = cross over tube and deposited lots of itself in the engine nacelle. I = was watching it the whole time. I couldn't maneuver the plane fast = enough to avoid it. How could an airliner? From that experience, I now = aim at any goose or eschelon of geese on an converging path, expecting = them to dive out of the way as I get closer. Jabe Luttrell ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Matt Reeves=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: [LML] GEESE Opinion by Matt Reeves: FLOCKS OF GEESE FLY SLOW and usually in a "V" shape, AND ARE EASY TO = SEE ON A BLUE SKY DAY - AND ARE sometimes DETECTABLE ON RADAR both on = airplanes and on the ground. Pilots WERE heros once plane hit the = flock, but COULD have the collision with geese been avoided and the = answer may be YES. =20 It is possible that NEITHER pilot was looking straight out the window = because the airplane was on an instrument flight plan =3D meaning, = controllers on the ground were responsible for aircraft separation. =20 ALSO, this aircraft floated for enough time to save the passengers and = did not break apart mainly because of pilot skill bringing it down to a = shallow angle of impact at the slowest possible airspeed above stall = speed AND it is built out of CARBON FIBER which is significantly LIGHTER = and stronger than aluminum and more flexible AND more seamless = preventing instant flooding, thus saving lives (sorry RV guys). =20 Baggage and landing gear compartments sealed with air also helped = buoyancy. PILOTS WERE HEROS in saving lives, but the accident MAY have = been avoidable simply by looking out the window. Future geese = avoidance may include horns on aircraft, much like deer horns on cars, = radar, and simply looking out the window on the departure and arrival = checklists. =20 This aircraft was on an IFR flight plan meaning looking out the window = was not required by the pilots since the controllers on the ground were = responsible for separating aircraft. However, at low altitude, at = geese flight levels, looking out the window should be mandatory. Most = geese do not fly in clouds. All points I have not seen reported. What's next? Billions in research and in the end, no changes except a = Goose Therapist Lady will make off with millions and will simply tell us = the geese are depressed that we are taking over their skies. And in the = end? I will marry her. Matt marv@lancair.net wrote: Posted for David Standish : That being said I still need a couple more pilots to get Pete to = come out to=20 Montana this summer. Montana is a great place to fly. Lots of room = for=20 training. Billings is a great small city. Yellowstone Park is = nearby. And a=20 local FBO has agreed to discount fuel. Please contact me if you are = interested. =20 David Standish =20 =20 =20 =20 flypetezacc@aol.com wrote: > ** > > The root problem is getting the message out to those that think = they=20 > do not need training. 43% of the accidents are people with less = than=20 > 100 hours in type. But, there is a very large number of accidents = > from people with 5000-20000 hours. The ease of receiving training = has=20 > never been easier I implore those that do not need training to get = it=20 > anyway! > > Grassroots effort. Go down the hangar row and let the lancair = pilot=20 > know why its important to get training from ANY qualified=20 > instructor. help make 2009 the safest year for Lancair pilots. > > Thank you, > > Peter Zaccagnino > HP-AT.com, Inc > 1046 River Ave > Flemington, NJ 08822 > 908 391 2001 --For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_039F_01C977C9.31F261F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Matt,
 
In my experience, geese fly where and = when they=20 choose.  I flew IFR through Pennsylvania amid layers of clouds at=20 6,000'.  ATC called out traffic.  It was an eschelon of geese = above=20 me.  I flew VFR over Harford, Ct. at 2,000'.  A Canada goose = was=20 flying from left to right a few hundred feet above me.  Just as it = passed=20 the fuselage above it folded its wings and dove directly into my right = engine=20 (Cessna 320).  It damaged the spinner, propeller, nose bowl, lower = nacelle,=20 engine cross over tube and deposited lots of itself in the engine = nacelle. =20 I was watching it the whole time.  I couldn't maneuver the plane = fast=20 enough to avoid it.  How could an airliner?  From that = experience, I=20 now aim at any goose or eschelon of geese on an converging path, = expecting them=20 to dive out of the way as I get closer.
 
Jabe Luttrell
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Matt=20 Reeves
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 = 10:41=20 AM
Subject: [LML] GEESE

Opinion by Matt=20 Reeves:

FLOCKS OF GEESE FLY SLOW = and usually=20 in a "V" shape, AND ARE EASY TO SEE ON A BLUE SKY DAY - AND ARE = sometimes=20 DETECTABLE ON RADAR both on airplanes and on the ground.   = Pilots=20 WERE heros once plane hit the flock, but COULD have the collision with = geese=20 been avoided and the answer may be YES.    

It = is=20 possible that NEITHER pilot was looking straight out the window = because the=20 airplane was on an instrument flight = plan =3D=20 meaning, controllers on the ground were responsible for aircraft=20 separation.  

ALSO, this aircraft floated for enough = time to=20 save the passengers and did not break apart mainly because of pilot = skill=20 bringing it down to a shallow angle of impact at the slowest possible = airspeed=20 above stall speed AND it is built out of CARBON FIBER which is = significantly=20 LIGHTER and stronger than aluminum and more flexible AND more seamless = preventing instant flooding, thus saving lives (sorry RV guys).   =

Baggage and landing gear compartments sealed with air also = helped=20 buoyancy.  PILOTS WERE HEROS in saving lives, but the accident = MAY have=20 been avoidable simply by looking out=20 the window.    Future geese avoidance may = include horns=20 on aircraft, much like deer horns on cars, radar, and simply looking = out the=20 window on the departure and arrival checklists.  =  

This=20 aircraft was on an IFR=20 flight plan meaning looking out the window was not = required by=20 the pilots since the controllers on the ground were responsible for = separating=20 aircraft.   However, at low altitude, at geese flight levels, = looking out=20 the window should be mandatory.  Most geese do not fly in=20 clouds.

All points I have not seen reported.

What's = next? =20 Billions in research and in the end, no changes except a Goose = Therapist Lady=20 will make off with millions and will simply tell us the geese are = depressed=20 that we are taking over their skies.  And in the end?  I = will marry=20 her.

Matt

marv@lancair.net wrote:
Posted=20 for David Standish = <carbonflier@bresnan.net>:

 That being=20 said I still need a couple more pilots to get Pete to come out to=20
Montana this summer.  Montana is a great place to=20 fly.  Lots of room for
training.  Billings = is a=20 great small city.  Yellowstone Park is = nearby.  And a=20
local FBO has agreed to discount fuel.  Please contact = me if=20 you are
interested.
 
 David=20 = Standish
 
 
 
 
 flypetezacc@aol= .com=20 wrote:
> **
>
> The root problem is getting the = message=20 out to those that think they
> do not need = training.  43%=20 of the accidents are people with less than
> 100 hours in=20 type.  But, there is a very large number of accidents =
>=20 from people with 5000-20000 hours.  The ease of receiving = training=20 has
> never been easier I implore those that do not need = training to=20 get it
> anyway!
>
> Grassroots effort. Go down = the=20 hangar row and let the lancair pilot
> know why its important = to get=20 training from ANY qualified
> instructor. help make 2009 the = safest=20 year for Lancair pilots.
>
> Thank you,
>
> = Peter=20 Zaccagnino
> HP-AT.com, Inc
> 1046 River Ave
> = Flemington,=20 NJ 08822
> 908 391 2001

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