X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:21:59 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com ([205.188.144.207] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with ESMTP id 3395654 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:01:46 -0500 Received: from PTACKABURY@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id q.c65.3c574a0c (37129) for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:01:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.148]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA023-5c624952871136a; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:01:42 -0500 Received: from webmail-stg-d03 (webmail-stg-d03.sim.aol.com [205.188.162.24]) by smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB018-5c624952871136a; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:01:37 -0500 References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Insurance X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:01:37 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 72.57.175.55 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: ptackabury@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB34112E858229_878_51CC_webmail-stg-d03.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 40627-STANDARD Received: from 72.57.175.55 by webmail-stg-d03.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.24) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:01:37 -0500 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CB34112E2AE8CD-878-27C2@webmail-stg-d03.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CB34112E858229_878_51CC_webmail-stg-d03.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hawgwash!! Lets continue the discussion by first defining the real problem:=C2=A0 Singl= e source, one size fits all training focused on meeting the draconian, ever=20= changing reqirements of AIG, an insurance company who doesn't want to write=20= insurance for Lancairs (except maybe factory Lancairs).=C2=A0 Jeff has shown= a meaningful relationship between time=C2=A0in type and accident rates--I h= ave seen no similar correlation between HPAT and accident rates--and yet AIG= offers no discount for thousands of total hours or hundreds of hours in typ= e.=C2=A0 Actually, given the loss of the factory Legacy and racin' 99, I wou= ld guess the factory=C2=A0is one of the worst clients for insurance after a=20= realistic risk assessment, even after their years of partnership with HPAT. The problem is AIG and the solution is competition.=C2=A0 Competition will d= evelop when we as owners and flyers make alternative source insurance availa= ble first to the lower risk parts of the community and show underwriters the= re is a way to make a buck even with Lancairs (go LOBO!).=C2=A0 If the stats= are true then everyone would want to insure a LIVP pilot with over 1000 hrs= TIT because one has never had an accident! After receiving my "thanks for your business--reapply and we will maybe writ= e you the same policy for a 25% increase in premium and a 10% deductible" le= tter form AIG, I contacted AVEMCO and they issued me liability coverage for=20= about $500.=C2=A0 True I have a LIV, not P, and they will not issue hull and= I do have a lot of flying time, experie nce and training, and I have insured with AVEMCO in the past and never had a= claim,=C2=A0so I really don't know what their criteria are for issuing a po= licy.=C2=A0 I do know they do not require anything beyond the normal bi-annu= al and medical (if it is good enough for the feds it is good enough for them= and ok with me). paul, N94PT =C2=A0 -----Original Message----- From: Craig Gainza To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 5:41 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Insurance Jeff, I do appreciate your efforts with LOBO, but I do have a comment.=C2=A0=20 It seems that the early focus of LOBO has been on Instructor standardization= , developing a teaching syllabus, and coordination with the FAA and the insu= rance industry.=C2=A0 That program has=C2=A0 been in place by Pete Z. and HP= AT for some time.=C2=A0 Wouldn't it be best to coordinate efforts with HPAT=20= and focus on the real problem-the apparent indifference to training many (ov= er)confident pilots have... Just a thought. Craig Gainza =C2=A0=20 520hrs IV-P To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:30:53 -0500 From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: Insurance Art & LML, You read our mind. LOBO is working on these issues. Last weekend LOBO hosted= a LOBO Lancair Instructor Pilot Standardization (LOBO LIPS) seminar in St.=20= Louis. Great weekend with some very experienced instructors in Lancairs. We=20= have develeped a very good Lancair flight and ground training program after=20= reviewing all Lancair accident stats. LOBO has been talking to the20FAA and=20= the insurance industry in order to reverse our negative safety trend and to=20= help us get where we need to be viz. insurance. Our training program is bein= g forwarded to the FAA for review for FITS acceptance.=C2=A0We will soon beg= in instructor standardization and evaluation.=C2=A0LOBO will be hosting=C2= =A0maintenance seminars this spring in the Washington DC area and in St. Lou= is.=C2=A0I promised you all that we would work hard on these issues and it i= s happening. For now, we need more LOBO members! There definitely is strengt= h in numbers here. If you are not a member, join. If you already are a membe= r please recruit a new member. fmi see www.lancairowners.com Best Holiday Regards, Jeff Edwards President, LOBO =C2=A0 Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations =E2=80=93 including song= s for the holidays =E2=80=93 FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now!=20 =3D=20 ----------MB_8CB34112E858229_878_51CC_webmail-stg-d03.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Hawgwash!!
Lets continue the discussion by first defining the real problem:  Singl= e source, one size fits all training focused on meeting the draconian, ever=20= changing reqirements of AIG, an insurance company who doesn't want to write=20= insurance for Lancairs (except maybe factory Lancairs).  Jeff has shown= a meaningful relationship between time in type and accident rates--I h= ave seen no similar correlation between HPAT and accident rates--and yet AIG= offers no discount for thousands of total hours or hundreds of hours in typ= e.  Actually, given the loss of the factory Legacy and racin' 99, I wou= ld guess the factory is one of the worst clients for insurance after a=20= realistic risk assessment, even after their years of partnership with HPAT.<= br> The problem is AIG and the solution is competition.  Competition will d= evelop when we as owners and flyers make alternative source insurance availa= ble first to the lower risk parts of the community and show underwriters the= re is a way to make a buck even with Lancairs (go LOBO!).  If the stats= are true then everyone would want to insure a LIVP pilot with over 1000 hrs= TIT because one has never had an accident!
After receiving my "thanks for your business--reapply and we will maybe writ= e you the same policy for a 25% increase in premium and a 10% deductible" le= tter form AIG, I contacted AVEMCO and they issued me liability coverage for=20= about $500.  True I have a LIV, not P, and they will not issue hull and= I do have a lot of flying20time, experience and training, and I have insure= d with AVEMCO in the past and never had a claim, so I really don't know= what their criteria are for issuing a policy.  I do know they do not r= equire anything beyond the normal bi-annual and medical (if it is good enoug= h for the feds it is good enough for them and ok with me).
paul, N94PT

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Gainza <cgainza@msn.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 5:41 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Insurance

Jeff,

I do appreciate your efforts with LOBO, but I do have a comment. 

It seems that the early focus of LOBO has been on Instructor standardization= , developing a teaching syllabus, and coordination with the FAA and the insu= rance industry.  That program has  been in place by Pete Z. and HP= AT for some time.  Wouldn't it be best to coordinate efforts with HPAT and focus on the real problem-the apparent indifference to training m= any (over)confident pilots have...

Just a thought.

Craig Gainza  
520hrs IV-P

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:30:53 -0500
From: vtailjeff@aol.com
Sub ject: [LML] Re: Insurance

Art & LML,

You read our mind. LOBO is working on these issues. Last weekend LOBO hosted= a LOBO Lancair Instructor Pilot Standardization (LOBO LIPS) seminar in St.=20= Louis. Great weekend with some very experienced instructors in Lancairs. We=20= have develeped a very good Lancair flight and ground training program after=20= reviewing all Lancair accident stats. LOBO has been talking to the FAA and t= he insurance industry in order to reverse our negative safety trend and to h= elp us get where we need to be viz. insurance. Our training program is being= forwarded to the FAA for review for FITS acceptance. We will soon begi= n instructor standardization and evaluation. LOBO will be hosting = maintenance seminars this spring in the Washington DC area and in St. Louis.=  I promised you all that we would work hard on these issues and it is h= appening. For now, we need more LOBO members! There definitely is strength i= n numbers here. If you are not a member, join. If you already are a member p= lease recruit a new member. fmi see www.lancairowners.com

Best Holiday Regards,

Jeff Edwards
President, LOBO


 
=3D

Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations – includi= ng songs for the holidays – FREE while you browse. Start Liste= ning Now!
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