X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:33:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTP id 3113330 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Sep 2008 20:19:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=tednoel@cfl.rr.com Received: from OfficeDesktop ([97.100.145.203]) by cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080904001919.SIRI2424.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@OfficeDesktop> for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2008 00:19:19 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <5ED872DCE1AF4767B9A73EDF9295755E@OfficeDesktop> From: "Ted Noel" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Simulators, Training and "Slow flight" X-Original-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:19:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C90E02.58B10750" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C90E02.58B10750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matt, I understand no type certificate from the Motus, but unless I was = misled, I can log instrument time in it toward all training and currency = requirements. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Matt Hapgood=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:05 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Simulators, Training and "Slow flight" Not to get too technical, but that Motus equipment is not, in FAA = dfinition, a simulator. It is a Flight Training Device, not a simulator. = And there is a monumental difference between the two. Simulators are = extremely accurate reproductions of the cockpit and flight modelling. = Flight Training Devices are very different and serve a very different = purpose, and the vast, vast majority make no effort to accurately model = flight dynamics, and are therefore not credited by the FAA for = performing aircraft specific training. They are focused on training = approaches and other generic training. Not aircraft specific procedures = or systems training. =20 Matt Hapgood FlyRight Inc 704-720-9623 Sent from my iPhone - please excuse typos, poor formatting and = brevity! On Aug 29, 2008, at 5:15 PM, "Ted Noel" wrote: MS Flight Sim and X-Plane, while fun and educational, are not up = to the challenge of providing the kind of fidelity needed for type = familiarity, let alone upset recovery training. =20 That's curious. The designers of X-Plane are quite proud of their = flight dynamics, and my local FBO uses X-Plane to drive an FAA-certified = Motus motion sim. That being said, if a group was serious about creating a = high-fidelity simulator, I would be please to contribute to the effort = with the development of a high fidelity aerodynamic model. The = variations between our individual aircraft remain a challenge, but from = mostly from a systems level. The aero models could be readily adapted = model the range of variations between our aircraft. =20 Tom Low I think all of us would be grateful for your help. Perhaps we = could pass the hat to reimburse for the time and effort. If others are = willing, I'll put some $$ in. Ted Noel N540TF No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.10/1638 - Release Date: = 8/27/2008 7:06 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: = 9/3/2008 4:13 PM ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C90E02.58B10750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Matt,
 
I understand no type certificate from the Motus, = but=20 unless I was misled, I can log instrument time in it toward all training = and=20 currency requirements.
 
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Matt Hapgood
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, = 2008 11:05=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Simulators, = Training=20 and "Slow flight"

Not to get too technical, but that Motus equipment is not, in FAA = dfinition, a simulator. It is a Flight Training Device, not a = simulator. And=20 there is a monumental difference between the two. Simulators are = extremely=20 accurate reproductions of the cockpit and flight modelling. Flight = Training=20 Devices are very different and serve a very different purpose, and the = vast,=20 vast majority make no effort to accurately model flight dynamics, and = are=20 therefore not credited by the FAA for performing aircraft specific = training.=20 They are focused on training approaches and other generic training. = Not=20 aircraft specific procedures or systems training.  

Matt = Hapgood
FlyRight Inc
704-720-9623

Sent from my iPhone - please excuse typos, poor formatting and=20 brevity!

On Aug 29, 2008, at 5:15 PM, "Ted Noel" <tednoel@cfl.rr.com>=20 wrote:

 
 MS Flight Sim = and=20 X-Plane, while fun and educational, are not up to the challenge of = providing the kind of fidelity needed for type familiarity, let = alone=20 upset recovery training. 
 
 
That's curious. The = designers=20 of X-Plane are quite proud of their flight dynamics, and my local = FBO uses=20 X-Plane to drive an FAA-certified Motus motion = sim.
 
 
 
That being said, if = a group=20 was serious about creating a high-fidelity simulator, I would be = please to=20 contribute to the effort with the development of a high fidelity=20 aerodynamic model.   The variations between our = individual=20 aircraft remain a challenge, but from mostly from a systems = level. =20 The aero models could be readily adapted model the range of = variations=20 between our aircraft.  

Tom=20 Low

I think all of = us would=20 be grateful for your help. Perhaps we could pass the hat to = reimburse for=20 the time and effort. If others are willing, I'll put some $$=20 in.

Ted=20 Noel

N540TF

No virus found in this =
incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.10/1638 - Release Date: =
8/27/2008 7:06 PM


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG = -=20 http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: = 270.6.16/1650 -=20 Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM
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