X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:08:08 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3091493 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:30:14 -0400 Received: from RMiller904@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.c95.3733ab13 (42805) for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:30:10 -0400 (EDT) From: RMiller904@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:30:10 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: some thoughts on accidents X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1219609810" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1219609810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en I sure have to say in my opinion there is nothing wrong with any of the =20 Lancair models that I have flown and the only one I have not is the fixed ge= ar. =20 It is all in practice and knowing your plane, if you don't fly it every week= , =20 don't go IFR for one thing and they are very hard to fly in IMC anyway, yea=20= it=20 can be done but it takes a lot of experience. Ron =20 =20 _www.ronsflying.com_ (http://www.ronsflying.com/)=20 In a message dated 8/22/2008 9:46:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 vtailjeff@aol.com writes: You are kidding, right? Go to youtube.com and type in "Lancair low pass" =20 and watch at the knuckleheads buzzing sailboats, etc. The responsible Lanca= ir=20 pilot is not in that airplane.=20 What we should be asking is what do the pilots with more than 1000 Lancair=20 hours in type have in common. Why don't they have any accidents? I think yo= u=20 will find that they approach flying very differently than the accident pilo= ts.=20 We have had a number of Lancair pilots who have attempted IMC without being= =20 current or even having an instrument rating; Lancair pilots have run their=20 airplane out of fuel and crashed; Lancair pilots have attempted areobatics=20= in=20 the traffic pattern with fatal results, etc. Three accident pilots this yea= r=20 flew into thunderstorms. Airplane design problem? Hardly. Responsibility? =20 Sorely lacking. But the same is true of all GA. GA pilots do not want to ab= ide =20 by the thin veneer of regulation in Part 61 or 91. Most GA pilots do not eve= n =20 know a modicum of the regs that affect their flights. Think I am pulling thi= s=20 out of thin air?... take a checkride tomorrow... would you pass? Would =20 more regulation change things? No.=20 Does the FAA really care that Lancairs have had a few too many accidents=20 this year (and btw-- what is the standard of measure) ? Answer No. They don= 't=20 enforce the regulations in place now. Does the insurance industry really ca= re?=20 No. If the loss rate is unacceptable they will not insure the market.=20 Everyone (Dave included--so rry to be picking on you) thinks the FAA, EAA,=20 insurance industry, someone else will fix the problem. Got a BIG clue here=20= --they=20 won't. The person that will fix the problem is the one that flies your air= plane. The longer I am in this business (accident investigation and flight=20 training) the more I think the responsible pilot is the exception rather th= an the=20 rule.=20 Is it riskier to fly a Lancair than a spam can? Probably not. What type of=20 aircraft stalled and crashed the day before the Legacy at Osksoh? A Piper T= ri=20 Pacer--certainly not your average high performance aircraft. I don't hear=20 anyone complaining that the Tri Pacer is "dangerous" because of its stall=20 characterisitics. Only 12 reported Tri PAcer accidents so far this year. 21= RV's.=20 Just about every aircraft will stall and when you do it at less than a coup= le=20 hundred feet the results are as advertised. Can we make the Lancairs stall=20 proof? No. Would improving the stall characteristics of the Legacy have cha= nged=20 the outcome of the Oshkosh accident? No.=20 There is way too much speculation on this subject here. The NTSB reports=20 speak for themselves. I have read all 146 reports and they are not a good=20 reflection of our Lancair communirty. Go to _www.ntsb.gov_ (http://www.ntsb.= gov/) =20 Read them. Be informed.=20 Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Taylor, David To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 6:53 pm Subject: [LML] Re: some thoughts on accidents =20 =20 Everybody keeps saying the same thing about training and taking these=20 airplanes seriously and then proce eds to chastise the Lancair population f= or =20 carelessness and lack of judgement. =20 =20 I do not understand this. Each and every Lancair pilot I know is extremely= =20 serious about his plane and takes flying and planning and weather and=20 training extremely seriously. (Anyone who can afford these things is by d= efinition=20 responsible.) =20 In other words, THIS IS NOT THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM AND ALL THESE=20 WARNINGS WILL DO NOTHING TO REDUCE CRASHES. =20 I think that the problem lies elsewhere=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. =20 David T. Legacy RG =20 =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [_mailto:lml@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net?) ] On Behalf Of Art Jensen Sent: Thu, August 21, 2008 11:03 To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net)=20 Subject: [LML] Re: some thoughts on accidents =20 =20 How many pilots out there have 1000 hours in type? Not many, but by now=20 they know their airplanes and they have been making good decisions, so far!= =20 Most of us who own a Lancair today will not keep the airplane long enough t= o fly=20 1000 hours. It will be sold to someone and the clock will start ticking=20 again. Then the new owner has to get through that first 200 hours where th= ey =20 are at the greatest risk. =20 Everyone who has commented so far seems to recognize that training is=20 probably the answer to reducing accidents. =20 =20 Art =20 0 pilots > 1000 hours in type Lancair of the 108 reorted Lancair accident pilots 40.7% had less than 51 hours tim= e=20 in type; 75.9% had less than 201 hours time in type. if you have more than 1000 hours time in type-- keep on doing what you are=20= =20 doing..... Regards, Jeff Edwards =20 ____________________________________ _Get the MapQuest Toolbar_=20 (http://mapquest.com/toolbar?ncid=3Dmpqmap00050000000010) . Directions, Traf= fic, Gas Prices & More! =20 **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave= l=20 deal here. =20 (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=3Daoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1219609810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
I sure have to say in my opinion there is nothing wrong with any of the= =20 Lancair models that I have flown and the only one I have not is the fixed ge= ar.=20 It is all in practice and knowing your plane, if you don't fly it every week= ,=20 don't go IFR for one thing and they are very hard to fly in IMC anyway, yea=20= it=20 can be done but it takes a lot of experience.  Ron
 
 
www.ronsflying.com
 =20
 
In a message dated 8/22/2008 9:46:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 vtailjeff@aol.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>You are=20 kidding, right? Go to youtube.com and type in "Lancair low pass"=20 and watch at the knuckleheads buzzing sailboats, etc. The=20 responsible Lancair pilot is not in that airplane.

What we shou= ld=20 be asking is what do the pilots with more than 1000 Lancair hours in type=20= have=20 in common. Why don't they have any accidents? I think you will find that t= hey=20 approach flying very differently than the accident pilots.

We=20= have=20 had a number of Lancair pilots who have attempted IMC without being curren= t or=20 even having an instrument rating; Lancair pilots have run their airplane o= ut=20 of fuel and crashed; Lancair pilots have attempted areobatics in the traff= ic=20 pattern with fatal results, etc. Three accident pilots this year flew into= =20 thunderstorms. Airplane design problem? Hardly. Responsibility?  Sore= ly=20 lacking. But the same is true of all GA. GA pilots do not want to abi= de=20 by the thin veneer of regulation in Part 61 or 91. Most GA pilots do not e= ven=20 know a modicum of the regs that affect their flights. Think I am pulling t= his=20 out of thin air?... take a checkride tomorrow... would you pass?  Wou= ld=20 more regulation change things? No.

Does the FAA really care that=20 Lancairs have had a few too many accidents this year (and btw-- what = is=20 the standard of measure) ? Answer No. They don't enforce the regulations i= n=20 place now. Does the insurance industry really care? No. If  the loss=20= rate=20 is unacceptable they will not insure the market. Everyone (Dave=20 included--so rry to be picking on you) thinks the FAA, EAA, insurance=20 industry, someone else will fix the problem. Got a BIG clue here --they wo= n't.=20 The person that will fix the problem is the one that flies your=20 airplane.

The longer I am in this business (accident investigation=20= and=20 flight training) the more I think the responsible pilot is the exception=20 rather than the rule.

Is it riskier to fly a Lancair than a spam c= an?=20 Probably not. What type of aircraft stalled and crashed the day before the= =20 Legacy at Osksoh? A Piper Tri Pacer--certainly not your average high=20 performance aircraft. I don't hear anyone complaining that the Tri Pacer i= s=20 "dangerous" because of its stall characterisitics. Only 12 reported Tri PA= cer=20 accidents so far this year. 21 RV's. Just about every aircraft will stall=20= and=20 when you do it at less than a couple hundred feet the results are as=20 advertised. Can we make the Lancairs stall proof? No. Would improving the=20 stall characteristics of the Legacy have changed the outcome of the Oshkos= h=20 accident? No.

There is way too much speculation on this subject he= re.=20 The NTSB reports speak for themselves. I have read all 146 reports and the= y=20 are not a good reflection of our Lancair communirty. Go to www.ntsb.gov Read=20 them. Be informed.

Jeff


-----Original Message-----
F= rom:=20 Taylor, David <dtaylor@crescentpark.com>
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 6:53 pm
Subject: [LML]=20= Re:=20 some thoughts on accidents

Everybody=20 keeps saying the same thing about training and taking these airplanes=20 seriously and then proce eds to chastise the Lancair population for=20 carelessness and lack of judgement. 
 
I=20 do not understand this.  Each and every Lancair pilot I know is extre= mely=20 serious about his plane and takes flying and planning and weather and trai= ning=20 extremely seriously.  (Anyone who can afford these things is by=20 definition responsible.)
 
In=20 other words, THIS IS NOT THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM AND ALL THESE WARNI= NGS=20 WILL DO NOTHING TO REDUCE CRASHES.
 
I=20 think that the problem lies elsewhere=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..<= /DIV>
 
David=20 T.
Legacy=20 RG
 
From:= Lancair Mai= ling=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] <= B>On=20 Behalf Of Art Jensen
Sent: Thu, August 21, 2008=20 11:03
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subj= ect:=20 [LML] Re: some thoughts on accidents
 
How many pilots out there have 1000 hours in=20 type?  Not many, but by now they know their airplanes and they=20= have=20 been making good decisions, so far!  Most of us who own a Lanca= ir=20 today will not keep the airplane long enough to fly 1000 hours. = ; It=20 will be sold to someone and the clock will start ticking again. = ;=20 Then the new owner has to get through that first 200 hours where the= y=20 are at the greatest risk.
 
Everyone who has commented so far seems= to=20 recognize that training is probably the answer to reducing=20 accidents.
 
Art
0 pilots >= 1000=20 hours in type Lancair

of the 108 reorted Lancair accid= ent=20 pilots 40.7% had less than 51 hours time in type; 75.9% had less t= han=20 201 hours time in type.
if you have more than 1000 hours time i= n=20 type-- keep on doing what you are=20 doing.....

Regards,

Jeff=20 Edwards

&nbs= p;



It's only a deal if it's where you want to go.= Find your travel deal here.= -------------------------------1219609810--