X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:49:05 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta16.adelphia.net ([68.168.78.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2759609 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:22:10 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.168.78.211; envelope-from=super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com Received: from Laptop ([74.75.176.139]) by mta16.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with SMTP id <20080227122129.VRVP2695.mta16.adelphia.net@Laptop> for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:21:29 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <7F31C38CF60D4860B4A2DF9412A5CEF5@Laptop> From: "Bill Wade" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: 51% rule? X-Original-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:21:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 So far the thread has focused on the construction aspects of Experimentals. That's one part of the overall picture. When it's ready for an Airworthiness Certificate the plane is at a point in time where everything is new or newly installed and with no chance to wear or break. It'll never be like that again- every part will be going to hell slow or fast and it's a question of what breaks first. The difficulty becomes spotting problems as the machine reacts to its service history in unique and unexpected ways. I think one problem with the hired gun approach is that if it's taken to an extreme the owner may not know any more about the construction and systems of the plane than if he went to a dealer and bought a Cessna or a Beechcraft. However, he could fill out the application for airworthiness as the "Builder" and be eligible for a Repairman's certificate under Part 65.104. This enables him to inspect and "annual" the aircraft. I think that could be a big problem. The same would be true if someone took over a partially-built project. Assuming this person honestly attempted an annual condition inspection rather than pencil whipping, would he be technically competent? I haven't been able to find a direct statement in the FAR's but the ability to conduct an annual condition inspection implies the knowledge to recognize and skill to correct any problems. If the "Builder" had done the work to create an airworthy machine in the first place I think that would be reasonable. If someone else did most of the work, who knows? I started building seventeen years ago and I was unhurried and very careful, following AC 43.13 and Bob Nuckolls. I came to it with a lot of experience in handling tools and working on machines. I made mistakes at first but progressed until I thought I did some very nice work. Now I look back at that and think a lot of it was rough. There's no substitute for hands-on experience. When I started this project I hired two weeks of Builder's Assist and worked my butt off. If there are skilled people who have done the work before and can help you do a better job I think it only makes sense to employ them. As has been pointed out, it becomes a matter of degree but in my mind the "Builder" should be directly involved throughout. Traditionally, EAA Chapter projects are a group effort but one individual becomes designated as the Builder. That doesn't mean he necessarily did most of the work. I agree that build shops can be a valuable resource but if they do most of the 51% without the owner present then the owner shouldn't get a Repairman's cert. Unfortunately, "Professional" assistance doesn't necessarily mean good workmanship. The examples that have been shown on the LML are one thing, but I think anyone who's owned a plane for a while knows there are bozos turning wrenches who shouldn't be within a mile of an aircraft. Even when the FAA knows of a bad operation it's very difficult to shut them down. I've spent years finding and fixing things that were done to my planes over decades by mechanics who either thought they knew what they were doing or knew they could get away with crappy work. Most recently I had to redo work by a shop with a very good reputation that was going through a crisis while my plane was in there. Right place?, definitely wrong time. Would someone who hired the construction be able to tell good from bad? There are also a lot of very good mechanics and I've been lucky enough to work with some of them. Many won't look at an Experimental plane because they have no way to tell if the design was airworthy to begin with or if the construction was adequate. They have much to lose and little to gain by working on one, so for them it's a no-brainer. That puts the maintenance back on the person with the Repairman's Certificate. There was a purchased Dyke Delta at our field and the owner had the designer do the condition inspection each year. That's not something everyone could or would want to do. See where this is going? If the pilot/owner was the only one who could be hurt that would be one thing. An unairworthy plane puts passengers and anyone or anything beneath it's flight path at risk. I think that's how the public could be endangered by a nominal "Builder" who did not have enough hands-on experience to do what is required. From what I have seen the FAA is a bureaucracy with little incentive for change and even less appetite for risk. Field Approvals are the way to modernize and improve the existing GA fleet, making it safer, yet in the past few years the process has gotten increasingly complex and expensive. It's now to the point where few if any Approvals are attempted, let alone approved. That's the main reason I want to build. The clampdown started in response to complaints from manufacturers, who after all are in business to sell new aircraft and expensive spare parts. If they perceive Experimentals as eroding their markets, watch out. If build shops become common enough, that could do it. FWIW, maybe not even one cent!- Bill Wade