X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:21:59 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [68.98.211.24] (HELO systems3.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2361371 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:21:02 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.98.211.24; envelope-from=cberland@systems3.net Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C803DA.0276BE28" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: [LML] Re: fuel tank drains X-Original-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:20:25 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <87C33F695961494D886EB3B6C8A4765138D976@s3server.Systems3.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: fuel tank drains Thread-Index: AcgDvwPwpU7vL6+rTR+wXwff6mRP4gAFlrJg From: "Craig Berland" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C803DA.0276BE28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, my fuel filter has an internal pressure relief to prevent a = plugged filter from stopping fuel flow. I think this plugged fuel = filter condition can be prevented through normal maintenance by = monitoring take off fuel rate. If fuel rate drops from 43 gal per hr to = 42 then checking the filter is in order. I will need to pull the top = cowl, but cleaning the filter is a piece of cake after that. I also have = the stock high pressure overboard relief. =20 I have had others say they have found stuff in a gascolator as well. I = have been a "poor" flyer for 20 plus years flying 40 year old planes = that set on the tarmac all day and night. I have seen water and = particles in the tank drains many times, but NEVER in the gascolator.=20 =20 The Bonanza has two perfectly good drains, one in each wing. Since it = is a low wing, it must meet the requirements of FAR 23.999. I can't say = for sure as I'm not up on all the far's, but it passes annuals. =20 I think the gascolator is one of those "personal" decisions, but in my = opinion the design is one of those not so good left over's from a long = time ago and the low volumes of general aviation won't pay for an = upgrade. While our constant flow injectors are not nearly as sensitive = as the automotive electronic injectors, I still believe a fuel filter is = important and a necessity. That is the main point I wanted to make. = Specifically, I feel a filter is a positive rather than a hindrance. = The FAA obviously disagrees with me as well. Craig Berland =20 Craig-- I do not understand > "I have one and it has a pressure relief valve in it.". Is that a = bypass? Or an overboard high pressure relief system? >"2. A gascolator is good for one thing and that is causing vapor lock = on hot starts. Particles that do not have there own zip code are passed = through. In 20 plus years I have never seen water come out of a = gascolator. The gascolator in the Bonanza I fly, until the IV-P is = complete, is not even visible let alone drainable. Drainage is done at = annual. I can't possibly see how that device prevents a slug of water = from going through to the engine. I agree that the fuel as it travels through the engine compartment is = going to have the potential of a vapor lock. That includes a gascolator. =20 I disagree that it takes a zip code to be trapped there. I have cleaned = many gascolators that had very fine dust particles trapped in the = screen. And in 50 years I have seen water (and mud) in gascolators = (during preflights).=20 =20 I am not familar with the Bonanza you fly, so excuse my ignorance, but = your statement that the gascolator is not even "visible let alone = drainable" and only done at the annual?? would seem to be counter to = FAR 23.999 1, 2ii 2iii=20 Section 23.999: Fuel system drains. (a) There must be at least one drain to allow safe drainage of the = entire fuel system with the airplane in its normal ground attitude. (b) Each drain required by paragraph (a) of this section and =A723.971 = must- (1) Discharge clear of all parts of the airplane; (2) Have a drain valve- (i) That has manual or automatic means for positive locking in the = closed position; (ii) That is readily accessible; (iii) That can be easily opened and closed; (iv) That allows the fuel to be caught for examination; (v) That can be observed for proper closing; and (vi) That is either located or protected to prevent fuel spillage in the = event of a landing with landing gear retracted. =20 And I thought that draining the gascolator (and fuel tank sumps) prior = to the first flight of the day was a standard preflight item.=20 =20 =20 Charlie K. =20 PS I agree with the Shock Cooling statement!
Charlie, my fuel filter has an=20 internal pressure relief to prevent a plugged filter from stopping = fuel=20 flow.  I think this plugged fuel filter condition can be prevented = through=20 normal maintenance by monitoring take off fuel rate.  = If fuel=20 rate drops from 43 gal per hr to 42 then checking the filter is in = order. =20 I will need to pull the top cowl, but cleaning the filter is a piece of = cake=20 after that. I also have the stock high pressure overboard=20 relief.
 
I have had others say they have found = stuff in a=20 gascolator as well.  I have been a "poor" flyer for 20 plus years = flying 40=20 year old planes that set on the tarmac all day and night.  I have=20 seen water and particles in the tank drains many times, = but NEVER in=20 the gascolator. 
 
The Bonanza has two perfectly good drains, one = in each=20 wing.  Since it is a low wing, it must meet the requirements of FAR = 23.999.  I can't say for sure as I'm not up on all the far's, but = it passes=20 annuals.
 
I think the gascolator is one of those = "personal"=20 decisions, but in my opinion the design is one of those not so good left = over's=20 from a long time ago and the low volumes of general aviation won't pay = for an=20 upgrade.  While our constant flow injectors are not nearly as = sensitive as=20 the automotive electronic injectors, I still believe a fuel filter = is=20 important and a necessity.  That is the main point I wanted to = make. =20 Specifically, I feel a filter is a positive rather than a=20 hindrance.  The FAA obviously disagrees with me as=20 well.
Craig Berland
 
 Craig--
I do not understand
> "I have one and it = has a=20 pressure relief valve in it.". Is that a=20 bypass? Or an overboard high pressure relief = system?
>"2. A gascolator is good for one thing = and that is=20 causing vapor lock on hot starts.  Particles that do not have there = own zip=20 code are passed through.  In 20 plus years I have never seen water = come out=20 of a gascolator.  The gascolator in the Bonanza I fly, until = the IV-P=20 is complete, is not even visible let alone drainable.  Drainage is = done at=20 annual.  I can't possibly see how that device prevents a slug = of water=20 from going through to the engine.
I agree that the fuel as it travels through the = engine compartment is=20 going to have the potential of a vapor lock. That includes a=20 gascolator.
 
I disagree that it takes a zip code to be trapped there. I have = cleaned=20 many gascolators that had very fine dust particles trapped in the = screen. And in=20 50 years I have seen water (and mud) in gascolators (during=20 preflights). 
 
I am not familar with the Bonanza you fly, so excuse my ignorance, = but your=20 statement that the gascolator is not even "visible let alone drainable"  and only done at the = annual?? =20 would=20 seem to be counter to FAR 23.999 1, 2ii 2iii

Section 23.999: Fuel system = drains.

(a) There must be at least one drain to = allow safe=20 drainage of the entire fuel system with the airplane in its normal = ground=20 attitude.

(b) Each drain required by paragraph = (a) of this=20 section and =A723.971=20 must=97

(1) Discharge clear of all parts of the = airplane;

(2) Have a drain valve=97

(i) That has manual or automatic means = for positive=20 locking in the closed position;

(ii) That is readily = accessible;

(iii) That can be easily opened and=20 closed;

(iv) That allows the fuel to be caught = for=20 examination;

(v) That can be observed for proper = closing;=20 and

(vi) That is either located or = protected to prevent=20 fuel spillage in the event of a landing with landing gear=20 retracted.

 

And I thought that draining the gascolator (and fuel tank sumps) = prior to the=20 first flight of the day was a standard preflight item. 

 

 

Charlie K.

  PS=20 I agree with the Shock Cooling = statement!</html ------_=_NextPart_001_01C803DA.0276BE28--