X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:19:11 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail372c35.nsolutionszone.com ([209.235.151.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTPS id 2340445 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:46:18 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.235.151.142; envelope-from=rsmiley2@centurytel.net X-Authenticated-User: rsmiley2.centurytel.net Received: from PC294771894831 (d31-204.rb.gh.centurytel.net [69.29.222.204]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail372c35.nsolutionszone.com (8.13.6.20060614/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l8JKja4l021293 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:45:38 GMT X-Original-Message-ID: <003101c7fafd$fbba50f0$640aa8c0@PC294771894831> From: "Bob Smiley" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Homebuilt Liability X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:45:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7FAC3.4DCFA8D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7FAC3.4DCFA8D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob and Jeff, I agree. There is no control on use of a sold asset regardless of the = agreements made. ie museum. If you maintain any control over the = airplane after sale; it might be construed in a legal proceeding that = you have some ownership of the plane. (ie similar to IRS rulings on = asset sales to dump assets out of your estate). "There is also the = problem of "chain of ownership" which holds all previous owners liable = to and need to defend in a lawsuit. I recently sold a motel which I did not build. It was a gas station and = garage in an earlier day. We had to remove the fuel tanks, remove = tainted soil, conduct quarterly water sample tests until the treatment = was successful. Received a notice of no further action from the = Department of Ecology. If fifty years from now the owner digs up the = dirt for another project and tainted soil is discovered; we are liable = for that as well as all present and past owners to cure the problem. =20 Another scenario. Let's say you keep the plane in your hanger. It is = an asset, right? Subject to attachment in a lawsuit. Let's say you are = sued for another event and a judgement is filed. The sheriff = confiscates your plane for judgement settlement. It is sold in a = Sheriff's sale. You are now exposed to further liablility action if an = accident occurs with the plane. So there is no protection there. Am I = paranoid? Some will say yes. BUT, if you are a cash cow in this = litigous society; you must be ever aware of possible situations and = protect yourself. I have come to the conclusion that the only safe way to resolve the = issue is to eliminate the risk of any possible exposure by: Destroying the parts that you manufactured. ie any component that you = assembled or manufactured which is: All airframe components, Possibly assemblying the instrument panel, any = modificiations to the engine which renders it expermental and not = certified tags the engine as a "Your Name-Lycoming" etc. should also be = destroyed or disassembled and sold separately. Some people say you dissassemble the plane and sell the parts to the = same ownner. I say NOT. If you sell a wing. You are the manufacturer = of that wing. Same exposure applies. You can sell the parts ie products you purchased and placed into the = airplane but not in their assembled state. Thus an instrument panel = could not be sold because you put it together and wired it up. The = Lancair hardware kit could be sold but not the hardware you made. If you are worth more than a million or say several million dollars net = worth; a $100,000 or $400,000 lancair becomes insiginficant as compared = to the risk involved. If you have a home, couple cars, a small life = insurance policy; then you might consider it. Attorneys always are on = the lookout for deep pockets. My father was a secretary for a small cemetery association. It was = sued. The ambulance chaser attorney held discovery proceedings for all = members of the board to determine their net worth, insurance policies, = assets held. Dad was the one with money bag pockets. The attorney = dropped the case on all the other members, even the one that was = involved in the incident, and sued dad. The insurance company took over = the lawsuit and settled for $50,000. This soured dad on community = service and thus a 50 year history of community service was ended and he = was very bitter about the experience. Would I do it again? You bet I would. I wouldn't have traded the = experience for anything else. I really loved building a work of art = that flew. When I flew next to Don Goetz for the first time in a = machine that I had created; It ranks right up there with marriage to my = second wife, and college graduation. =20 The hard part is now to pick up the emotional courage to take a saw to = the fuselage, wings, and control surfaces. Also the motor needs to be = dissassembled and the parts sold separately. I did not manufacture the = parts but the assembly was under my supervision by an overhaul facility. = How do you destroy a work of art? That is my dilema. Bob Smiley N94RJ ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7FAC3.4DCFA8D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob and Jeff,
 
 
I agree.  There is no control on = use of a sold=20 asset regardless of the agreements made. ie museum.  If you = maintain any=20 control over the airplane after sale; it might be construed in a legal=20 proceeding that you have some ownership of the plane. (ie similar to IRS = rulings=20 on asset sales to dump assets out of your estate).  "There is also = the=20 problem of "chain of ownership" which holds all previous owners liable = to and=20 need to defend in a lawsuit.
 
I recently sold a motel which I did not = build.  It was a gas station and garage in an earlier day.  We = had to=20 remove the fuel tanks, remove tainted soil, conduct quarterly water = sample tests=20 until the treatment was successful. Received a notice of no further = action from=20 the Department of Ecology.  If fifty years from now the owner = digs up=20 the dirt for another project and tainted soil is discovered;  we = are liable=20 for that as well as all present and past owners to cure the = problem. =20
 
Another scenario.  Let's say you = keep the=20 plane in your hanger.  It is an asset, right?  Subject to = attachment=20 in a lawsuit.  Let's say you are sued for another event and a = judgement is=20 filed.  The sheriff confiscates your plane for judgement = settlement. It is=20 sold in a Sheriff's sale. You are now exposed to further liablility = action=20 if an accident occurs with the plane. So there is no protection = there.  Am=20 I paranoid?  Some will say yes. BUT, if you are a cash cow in = this=20 litigous society; you must be ever aware of possible situations and = protect=20 yourself.
 
I have come to the conclusion that the = only safe=20 way to resolve the issue is to eliminate the risk of any possible = exposure=20 by:
 
Destroying the parts that you = manufactured. ie any=20 component that you assembled or manufactured which is:
 
All  airframe components, Possibly = assemblying=20 the instrument panel, any modificiations to the engine which renders it=20 expermental and not certified tags the engine as a "Your = Name-Lycoming" =20 etc. should also be destroyed or disassembled and sold = separately.
 
Some people say you dissassemble the = plane and sell=20 the parts to the same ownner.  I say NOT.  If you sell a = wing. =20 You are the manufacturer of that wing.  Same exposure = applies.
 
You can sell the parts ie products you = purchased=20 and placed into the airplane but not in their assembled state.  = Thus an=20 instrument panel could not be sold because you put it together and wired = it=20 up.  The Lancair hardware kit could be sold but not the hardware = you=20 made.
 
If you are worth more than a million or = say several=20 million dollars net worth; a $100,000 or $400,000 lancair becomes = insiginficant=20 as compared to the risk involved.  If you have a home, couple cars, = a small=20 life insurance policy; then you might consider it. Attorneys always are = on the=20 lookout for deep pockets.
 
My father was a secretary for a small = cemetery=20 association.  It was sued.  The ambulance chaser attorney held = discovery proceedings for all members of the board to determine their = net worth,=20 insurance policies, assets held.  Dad was the one with money bag=20 pockets.  The attorney dropped the case on all the other members, = even the=20 one that was involved in the incident, and sued dad.  The = insurance=20 company took over the lawsuit and settled for $50,000. This soured dad = on=20 community service and thus a 50 year history of community service was = ended and=20 he was very bitter about the experience.
 
Would I do it again? You bet I = would.  I=20 wouldn't have traded the experience for anything else.  I really = loved=20 building a work of art that flew.  When I flew next to Don Goetz = for the=20 first time in a machine that I had created; It ranks right up there with = marriage to my second wife, and college graduation. 
 
The hard part is now to pick up the = emotional=20 courage to take a saw to the fuselage, wings, and control = surfaces.  Also=20 the motor needs to be dissassembled and the parts sold separately.  = I did=20 not manufacture the parts but the assembly was under my supervision by = an=20 overhaul facility.  How do you destroy a work of art?  That is = my=20 dilema.
 
Bob Smiley
N94RJ
 
 
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