X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:19:17 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.152] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.11) with ESMTP id 2265364 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:00:02 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.152; envelope-from=j.hafen@comcast.net Received: from hafenj1 (71-32-234-194.slkc.qwest.net[71.32.234.194]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070816015925m1200cnl1ie>; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:59:25 +0000 From: "John Hafen" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] Apologies to the farmer's daughter X-Original-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:59:20 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <000501c7dfa9$10a98280$0a00a8c0@engagethoughtware.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DF76.C60F1280" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DF76.C60F1280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob Wolf says: =93They told us that they want the airplane to land = slightly nose down. If we were going to land tail first, they would have = insisted on head-rest-type protection features.=94 =20 The benefits of crashing =93slightly nose down=94 are not clear to me = (you could cut your head open on the Rosen sun visor). Maybe Cirrus should go = ahead and install head rest protection features and let her crash tail first = to absorb more shock. =20 My friend=92s son, and 3 of his buddies, were circling 10,000 foot Maple Mountain in central Utah, scoping for elk. They found a herd and wanted = to get in closer for a better look. It was a hot day, so the pressure = altitude was well over 10k, and the 172 had four big guys in it with =BE of max = fuel. You can guess the rest. They got in close, took a look, and couldn=92t = make it out of the canyon. As they were about to crash into the mountain = side, a wing hit a tree and spun them around 180 degrees and they crashed tail = first into the mountain. They walked away with minor injuries. And it was a million year old Cessna without =93head rest type protection = features.=94 =20 I don=92t know if a carbon fiber tail cruncher would absorb energy as = well as an aluminum tail of an old Cessna, but it might be worth looking into. =20 Shuttle pilots withstand a Brazilian G=92s in a reclined position. So = do F-16 pilots. Maybe we should all try to crash tail first.=20 =20 Maybe BRS systems should cant the plane so as to use the tail to absorb = the shock. =20 John Hafen =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of rwolf99@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:25 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Apologies to the farmer's daughter =20 Guys -- Richard Titsworth pointed out to me that the 25 foot-per-second descent = rate with a BRS *is* 1500 feet per minute. Gee, I get the "turkey of the = day" award... Anyway, they claim that 25 fps (1500 fpm) is survivable. They told us = that they want the airplane to land slightly nose down. If we were going to = land tail first, they would have insisted on head-rest-type protection = features. You know, 25 fps didn't sound all that fast to me, but 1500 fpm seems = pretty darn fast to be crunching into the ground. - Rob Wolf _____ =20 AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free = from AOL at AOL.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DF76.C60F1280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rob Wolf says:=A0 = “They told us that they want the airplane to land slightly nose down.  If = we were going to land tail first, they would have insisted on = head-rest-type protection features.”

 

The benefits of crashing “slightly nose down” are = not clear to me (you could cut your head open on the Rosen sun visor).=A0 Maybe = Cirrus should go ahead and install head rest protection features and let her = crash tail first to absorb more shock.

 

My friend’s son, and 3 of his buddies, were circling = 10,000 foot Maple Mountain in central Utah, scoping for elk.=A0 They found a herd and = wanted to get in closer for a better look.=A0 It was a hot day, so the pressure = altitude was well over 10k, and the 172 had four big guys in it with =BE of max = fuel.=A0 You can guess the rest.=A0 They got in close, took a look, and = couldn’t make it out of the canyon.=A0 As they were about to crash into the mountain = side, a wing hit a tree and spun them around 180 degrees and they crashed tail first = into the mountain.=A0 They walked away with minor injuries.=A0 And it was a = million year old Cessna without “head rest type protection features.”

 

I don’t know if a carbon fiber tail cruncher would absorb = energy as well as an aluminum tail of an old Cessna, but it might be worth = looking into.

 

Shuttle pilots withstand a Brazilian G’s in a reclined = position.=A0 So do F-16 pilots.=A0 Maybe we should all try to crash tail first. =

 

Maybe BRS systems should cant the plane so as to use the tail to = absorb the shock.

 

John Hafen

 

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing = List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of rwolf99@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August = 15, 2007 7:25 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Apologies = to the farmer's daughter

 

Guys --

Richard Titsworth pointed out to me that the 25 foot-per-second descent = rate with a BRS *is* 1500 feet per minute.  Gee, I get the = "turkey of the day" award...

Anyway, they claim that 25 fps (1500 fpm) is survivable.  They told = us that they want the airplane to land slightly nose down.  If we were = going to land tail first, they would have insisted on head-rest-type = protection features.

You know, 25 fps didn't sound all that fast to me, but 1500 fpm seems = pretty darn fast to be crunching into the ground.

- Rob Wolf

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find = out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

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