X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [69.171.52.140] (account marv@lancaironline.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 5.0.7f) with HTTP id 950058 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:49:37 -0500 From: "Marvin Kaye" Subject: Re: [LML] Winglets versus Wingtips To: lml X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser v5.0.7f Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:49:37 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43D3BEA3.60000@comcast.net> References: <43D3BEA3.60000@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Posted for Gary Hall : Hi Gang, Interesting discussion. I have always heard that slow speed aircraft (except for certain sailplanes) do not derive any "real" benefits from winglets. In this article (below) they state, "The energy expended in this phenomenon is directly responsible for the induced drag, which can be extremely large for certain aircraft wing configurations--particularly under high-lift, low-speed flight conditions." As I have heard Burt Rutan state they do not appreciably help the Long or Veri Eze aircraft which have very large airfoil winglets. He has said that the desired effects are only for speeds that really exceed the speed for his designs. So I find that comments on both sides interesting. http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Concept2Reality/winglets.html In this brief article; http://library.thinkquest.org/18033/whitcomb.html They say, "The research showed that the winglets could increase an aircraft's range by as much as 7 percent at cruise speeds." Which backs up what Rutan said. In this article, "The winglet flight test program brought together NASA, the U.S. Air Force, and Boeing, which began the effort with configuration studies and contractual work to design and manufacture the test articles which measured 9 feet high and 6 feet across at the base. Flight conditions in which test data was obtained included a cruise speed of about 500 mph at altitudes of 30,000 to 35,000 feet;" Again this seems to support what Burt has said. In the next article (if you can get through the technical gibberish), they state, "using a full-scale model of the outboard 5.6 feet of a 15-meter-class high performance sailplane wing. Marchman, Manor, and Faery13 found that symmetric winglets were best for general aviation aircraft, but were less effective on tapered wings." http://www.star-tech-inc.com/papers/aiaa/aiaa.pdf Here is an interesting discussion. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=87793&page=1 Bottom line is that I can't see where the Lancair winglets (as they are today) add any measurable beneficial help. I would like to see some actual wind tunnel tests done on the Lancair wing and winglet combination to convince me otherwise. They do look cool though. Warm regards, Gary FXE (Fort Lauderdale Executive) http://www.uslan.com/hinge-kit.html --------------------------------