X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:50:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.62] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.5) with ESMTP id 903881 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:56:46 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.62; envelope-from=skipslater@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PhlPKACeiyseJtIL65QXF1Ha9R9rTorTh0MxYPp6Es2U3JIU/6732ISsOQBgYwnw; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [71.116.167.28] (helo=wbs) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Erdej-0006Wl-2M for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:56:01 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <002801c60bc7$37bd7b40$6401a8c0@wbs> From: "Skip Slater" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Where has all the power gone? X-Original-Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:55:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C60B84.0FC7D1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: cbee950bdf563876c8ad50643b1069f8239a348a220c26099174952f86c4ad323b53838f5055e9c93ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.116.167.28 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C60B84.0FC7D1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, In defense of the "Ada crew" you referred to, let's set the record = straight on a few things you mentioned. First, let me state that I'm an EI user, advocate and believer. I = have a normaly aspirated IO-540 with one mag and one LSE. In 300 hours, = I've had my mag out twice for repairs. While my LSE is the second EI, = I've had (the first was an Electroair that gave me nothing but trouble = until I finally gave up and replaced it) once I got it set up properly, = it's been trouble free. So I'm with you on EI's. What the Ada guys deal with is hard fact and quantifiable data. The = primary supplier if the EI's in use in the experimental market is Klaus = Sauvier and he refuses to provide anyone any data on the timing curves = used in the LSE ignitions. Without that, nobody can do a thorough = analysis of them because they have no manufacturer's baseline to work = with. It's that lack of data that gives pause to the Ada guys = recommending something they can't put on their test stand with hard data = points. I've attended the APS seminar and that's the reason they gave = when I brought this up in class (along with a few other attendees). As for PRISM, when George Braly says it's ready for prime time, you = can take that to the bank. That system will likely have more time in = airplanes and on what is probably the most heavily instrumented test = stand available anywhere than anything similar that Klaus or anyone else = has ever put out there. It will also be certifiable. In complexity, = principle and operation, it will be far superior to any FADEC system on = the market now or on the drawing boards that I know of. I like proven = systems too, but PRISM has been flying for quite some time now and is = proving to be just as good as envisioned when George came up with the = concept. The main thing holding it up is the availability of some of = the mass produced components due to one particular supplier. I know of no more knowledgable engine experts than the "Ada crew". = George Braly and anyone he associates himself with are eminently = qualified to comment on any piston powered power plant subjects = discussed on the LML. I don't feel their reluctance to support EI = technology is because they don't think they work, it's because they = can't verify that they do everything they advertise. I'll keep happily flying with my LSE until PRISM is available, but = I'll also listen with great interest to anything the "Ada crew" has to = say in this forum. Skip Slater N540ES ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C60B84.0FC7D1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul,
   In defense of the "Ada = crew" you=20 referred to, let's set the record straight on a few things you=20 mentioned.
   First, let me state that = I'm an EI=20 user, advocate and believer.  I have a normaly aspirated IO-540 = with one=20 mag and one LSE.  In 300 hours, I've had my mag out twice for=20 repairs.  While my LSE is the second EI, I've had (the first was an = Electroair that gave me nothing but trouble until I finally gave up and = replaced=20 it) once I got it set up properly, it's been trouble free.  So I'm = with you=20 on EI's.
   What the Ada guys deal = with is hard=20 fact and quantifiable data.  The primary supplier if the EI's in = use in the=20 experimental market is Klaus Sauvier and he refuses to provide anyone = any data=20 on the timing curves used in the LSE ignitions.  Without that, = nobody can=20 do a thorough analysis of them because they have no manufacturer's = baseline to=20 work with.  It's that lack of data that gives pause to the Ada guys = recommending something they can't put on their test stand with hard data = points.  I've attended the APS seminar and that's the reason they = gave when=20 I brought this up in class (along with a few other = attendees).
   As for PRISM, when = George Braly=20 says it's ready for prime time, you can take that to the bank.  = That system=20 will likely have more time in airplanes and on what is probably the most = heavily=20 instrumented test stand available anywhere than anything similar that = Klaus or=20 anyone else has ever put out there.  It will also be=20 certifiable.  In complexity, principle and operation, it will = be far=20 superior to any FADEC system on the market now or on the drawing boards = that I=20 know of.  I like proven systems too, but PRISM has been flying = for=20 quite some time now and is proving to be just as good as envisioned when = George=20 came up with the concept.  The main thing holding it up is the = availability=20 of some of the mass produced components due to one particular=20 supplier.
   I know of no more = knowledgable engine=20 experts than the "Ada crew".  George Braly and anyone he = associates=20 himself with are eminently qualified to comment on any piston=20 powered power plant subjects discussed on the LML.  I don't = feel their=20 reluctance to support EI technology is because they don't think = they work,=20 it's because they can't verify that they do everything they=20 advertise.
  I'll keep happily flying = with my LSE=20 until PRISM is available, but I'll also listen with great interest to = anything=20 the "Ada crew" has to say in this forum.
   Skip Slater
  =20 N540ES  
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