X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:51:47 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mercury.email.starband.net ([148.78.247.34] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c3) with ESMTP id 743702 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 04:16:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=148.78.247.34; envelope-from=hwasti@starband.net Received: from starband.net (vsat-148-64-23-255.c050.t7.mrt.starband.net [148.64.23.255]) by mercury.email.starband.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j918FE1Z006482 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 04:15:32 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <433E45AD.2010804@starband.net> X-Original-Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 01:15:41 -0700 From: "Hamid A. Wasti" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Insurance References: Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on mercury X-Virus-Status: Clean GilliamDL@aol.com wrote:

Some of us have been building the ES (easy transition, etc., sales time) now in my case four and a half years later? We need to get more training then originally thought. OK training is always good. But it has to be with certain trainers. Oh and the ES is EXTRA SIMPLE to build so you should have no problems, just call for tech help whenever. OK now you need to have the factory inspect, before you will be insurable.

You have been building for 4.5 years. The reasonable assumptions that you made based on the best data available 4.5 years ago are not valid anymore. Does that surprise you? Things change and you have to adapt, that is the reality of living. Were you expecting Lancair to guarantee that the assumptions you made would be valid after 4 years, after 8 years, after 12 years?

Oh by the way because so many of your high performance brethren have had accidents the cost of this insurance will now be just as close to unreachable as we can make it.

Guess what, you are part of that brotherhood that has caused everyone's insurance rates to go up. You can chose not to be part of that brotherhood. You can completely divorce yourself from it, call you airplane the "Gilliam Special, loosely based on a Lancair ES, but not an ES" and then try and see if you can get ANY insurance at ANY price. I bet that if you were to do that, you will not be able to get anyone to give you a quote.

As a community of one, you are a far greater risk than part of a community of reckless pilots. But you are not a reckless pilot like those that got themselves killed, are a responsible person and should not be penalized for their mistakes. If so, prove it.

Many of those people that got killed did so because they were arrogant and did not listen to others. They knew best and did what they wanted to do to and in their airplane. The laws granted them that freedom. They were the manufacturer and had a piece of paper from the US government recognizing that fact. How could anyone tell them that their plane was unsafe and needed to be grounded. Many others died because they did not get adequate training. The skills that served them well for years flying their Mooney (or something of similar complexity) were good enough to fly a Lancair IV-P and that was good enough. The kid with 200 hours and a CFI ticket with the ink still wet was all that law required to sign off their BFR. The BFR was just a bureaucratic formality, not a learning opportunity -- they did not need to learn more, they knew all that they needed to know already.

So you are not like that and are a part of a group of pilots that do not share those traits? Prove it. You can start by having a dispassionate and knowledgeable third party inspect your plane. If that is an insult to you, then are you not part of that group that you are blaming for your woes? Then you can continue by having a qualified and experienced pilot give you some training -- real training. If you feel that that is an insult to your knowledge and airmanship skills, then once again you have to ask yourself, which group do you really belong to? Yes, doing all of that costs money. But no one guaranteed that aviation would be cheap. Back when you got your kit, avgas was most probably around $2, most probably under $2. Today, when you are lucky to see avgas for $4, are you going to blame Lancair for letting the cost of operating your ES get so high?

Let us all be thankful for there being insurance available for the Lancairs. Be extra thankful that you can get insurance even for the first flight. And let us do our part in keeping it affordable by having our planes inspected by those that know more than us and are not emotionally involved in whatever "improvements" we have made. And much more importantly, by getting initial and recurrent training by qualified and experienced instructors that can teach us stuff that increases our chances of staying alive in these higher performance airplanes.

All that said, if Lancair is not returning your calls and e-mails to facilitate that, then it is shame on them.

Yes, gentlemen I DO NOT HAVE AN UNLIMITED INSURANCE BUDGET. I know that's hard for some on this list to understand.

I know you will find this hard to listen to, but if that is the reality of your situation, then I would suggest you consider getting out of aviation. OK, now sit down, stop screaming at the computer, calm down and listen. Today I talked to a woman who I discovered was pilot but had not flown at all this year because she could not afford to rent a Cesna 172 and now that her BFR was expired, she needed even more money. Does she have a right to demand that the FBO lower the rental price to make it affordable to her? Can she demand that her boss increase her salary to make it possible for her to fly? Can she demand that her taxes be lowered or her rent be reduced because her right to fly is being abridged? No she does not and that is her present economic reality. The same applies for all of us. I understand the economic realities because I was personally out of aviation for a while because I had an economic downturn. Aviation costs money -- lots and lots of it. We should all strive to reduce the cost but not at the cost of safety. If our economic reality does not allow us to fly safely, then we should get out of aviation for a while till we can be back in the field and be safe. It is not just for our sakes but for the sake of our families and the sake of those that will otherwise one day be complaining on the LML that our actions increased their insurance rates.

Getting back to the issue of the cost of Lancair insurance, have you compared the cost of your Lancair policy with that of a certified airplane? What does the insurance on a $300K Mooney TLS cost? I bet the new Lancair program is most probably very close. What about comparing a $300K Lancair IV-P to a $300K Aerostar 700, which is pressurized and cruises at close to the same speed. Do you realize that starting out, you will be paying more, maybe a lot more, for an Aerostar than you would for starting out in a Lancair IV-P? If you are starting out in something like Pressurized Baron, an Aerostar or a host of similar performance twins and turbine singles with no time in type, you will be required to attend a week of training at a place like Sim Com plus get 25 or more hours of dual in your airplane followed by annual 2 day recurrent training at a place like Sim Com. Now compare that to the requirements for getting insurance in a Lancair with no time in type and an untried airframe with unknown bad habits. When you look at the big picture and see what restrictions exist in the certified world and what risks exist in the experimental world, you will realize how good you have it.

Now that is my rant on this subject. I need to get back to my work at close to midnight on a Friday night so I can earn money to afford gas and insurance on my certified bird :)

Regards,

Hamid