Return-Path: Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com ([216.18.128.7]) by truman.olsusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-52269U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:34:51 -0400 Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA21041 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from regandesigns.com (tnt132-73.nidlink.com [216.18.132.73]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA05938 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BC5D23.84540AD9@regandesigns.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:38:11 -0700 From: Brent Regan To: lancair.list@olsusa.com Subject: Re: Terrain Data $ EFIS 2000 flight References: <19990819044605.AAA18435@truman.olsusa.com> X-Mailing-List: lancair.list@olsusa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I was a little confused by the posting regarding the accuracy of terrain data and GPS position information. It seemed to saying that not having terrain data was a good thing because the data may not be completely accurate. Bullshit! In order for the earth's surface to be displayed from a manageable amount of digital data certain compromises must be made in the absolute accuracy of the displayed surface. If you imagine that the surface of a mountain is represented by a series of points then you can see that the more points (data) you have the more accurately the true shape of the mountain is represented. Even with a relatively few points, drawing an irregular polygonal surface that is accurate to the true shape of a mountain within +-100 feet is possible. The problem comes in having a processor and graphics system with enough heuvos to move the terrain around on the screen in real time. When someone says: "Terrain data are currently available and can easily be incorporated into moving map displays. However, existing terrain data is not accurate and can be seriously misleading. The problem is further exacerbated by GPS error introduced by the military. Because of the errors, most moving map display manufacturers have prudently decided to delay displaying the terrain data until it is reliable." What they are really saying, without the marketing BS, is:" Sure we can display terrain data but when we do it brings our hardware to it's knees and during a standard rate turn the display lags tens of degrees behind the airplane and is confusing to the pilot, so we don't do it. Other manufacturers agree it isn't prudent because they can't do it either." As I recall the introduced (in)accuracy in the GPS signal is on the order of 50 feet. Inaccuracies due to velocity verses refresh are easy to calculate. If a display is updating with terrain 4 times a second and you are turning 3 degrees a second then the terrain will lag the aircraft by 0.75 degrees. If you are traveling at 250 Kts (422 ft/sec) then the display will lag your true position by 106 feet. Adding it up you can see that you will know where the boundary between terra firma and the clear blue yonder is to within 250 feet. Your options are therefore: 1) Look out the window (infinite inaccuracy in IMC) 2) Triangulate your position using VORs or lat longs off the GPS and find that point on a chart, find the MEA and check your altimeter (BTY that process took at least 10 seconds so have traveled almost a mile in that time). 3) Have a GPS based terrain system and know where you are within 250 feet. Even if the accuracy for the terrain system was 10 times worse (2500 feet) it is still better than 1 or 2 for horizontal navigation. I recently had the opportunity to fly the Sierra Flight System's EFIS 2000 in a real plane around real big mountains (Jackson Hole WY) with terrain (and radio towers and airports and approach fixes and highway in the sky and velocity vectors and airdata) displayed. I can tell you from first hand experience that I if anyone tells you that terrain data is "not a prudent thing to have" then they haven't flown behind the SFS EFIS 2000. I want one and I want it NOW!! So should you. What pleases me most about all this is that a couple of smart guys (experimental airplane builders no less) were able to do what NASA, Collins, Honeywell and a cadre of AGATE ticks has yet to achieve. Saying that "it isn't prudent to do until WE have done it" is just the voice of envy. This is a very dynamic time in the avionics world. It is also the most confusing. The technology is changing rapidly and the bull is unbelievable deep. Assume all sales people are liars and you must fly it before you buy it. Don't accept the sales pitch, brochure or canned demo as a basis for making a purchase decision. Remember that everything I say should be discounted as the ranting's of a fool. Check it out for yourself or the grater fool be you. Regards Brent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML homepage: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html