X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 18:04:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from relais.videotron.ca ([24.201.245.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.2) with ESMTP id 968120 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 May 2005 15:54:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.201.245.36; envelope-from=alphagolf@videotron.ca Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([70.80.122.54]) by VL-MO-MR007.ip.videotron.ca (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IHB0097OJ93QY@VL-MO-MR007.ip.videotron.ca> for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 May 2005 15:53:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 19:53:28 +0000 From: Alain Gauthier Subject: B&C BC-100 Battery, Attitude & Safety X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net X-Original-Message-id: <429B6F38.9090002@videotron.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Thpf3pW/pRUW9V/Z7KzjiQ)" X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Thpf3pW/pRUW9V/Z7KzjiQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Lorn, And you thought this was all going to be about good batteries, not about deliberate flight with a dead battery... Been there, done that as a student pilot, because that seemed OK for the flying people at my flight school. Would I do it again? Certainly not. You've been admonished and lectured by fellow listers who are certainly far more knowledgeable than I am, so I won't add to that. Anyhow I'm going to add my own little spin to this affair and, please, don't take it bad, it's not meant to be offending, demeaning or insulting in any way. We simply want you to stay with us. John King said "When you've been around aviation a long time, you get to know a lot of dead people..." I was just a kid when I saw a pilot take off in his Cessna and immediately proceed with a clean stall spin right after takeoff about 1000 ft. away from me. It doesn't look good, it doesn't sound good, it doesn't feel like in the movies; I never forgot that. Then it's been my chief instructor, then the chief mechanic I knew, then Tony Durizzi, and this good judge (Wendell Durr) and then Shannon Knoepflein... Last year I came across this excellent course put together by John and Martha King. This was certainly one of the best buys I ever made. After the recent events and discussions, I decided to go through its paces again during the weekend. Here are a few of their best punch lines: > Risks left unmanaged are unacceptable... > Lie to your mother in law, if you want, but don't lie to yourself... > To discover the principles of aviation risk management - ARM - by trial and error is not a good idea, it's risky and not efficient. > Experience is a hard teacher, it gives the test first, and the lesson afterwards, and many do not live through this experience... > When the risk is vague and indefinite and the benefit specific, people don't do a good job of making decisions... > Bright people can do some incredibly dumb things... > Experts make as many mistakes as novices ; experts are better at catching mistakes. > The pilot "is" one of the risk factors on every flight. I won't express judgment. As you rightfully pointed out, we don't have all the facts anyways, but you do. So, I friendly challenge you to take the risk management course from John and Martha King, analyze the process decision that led to your flight with a dead battery and no electrical equipment, under adverse weather conditions, and to your continued flight under what many of us consider adverse conditions or very limited options. Over the years, many of our fellow listers contributed to our collective education by providing accounts of errors or mishaps that were, frankly, not very flattering for themselves. Yet they found the courage and humility to inform us. Will you please follow John and Martha King's course, debrief yourself following their guidelines and provide us with a factual analysis of what you would and would not do in that perspective. Thanks in advance, Lorn, Alain :-) http://www.kingschools.com/PracticalRiskManagement.asp PS I can's help but think about how you would have dealt with a combination of your flight conditions plus Rick's engine problem... Murphy is perverse... --Boundary_(ID_Thpf3pW/pRUW9V/Z7KzjiQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Lorn,
And you thought this was all going to be about good batteries, not about deliberate flight with a dead battery… Been there, done that as a student pilot, because that seemed OK for the flying people at my flight school. Would I do it again?  Certainly not.  You've been admonished and lectured by fellow listers who are certainly far more knowledgeable than I am, so I won’t add to that.  Anyhow I'm going to add my own little spin to this affair and, please, don't take it bad, it's not meant to be offending, demeaning or insulting in any way.  We simply want you to stay with us.

John King said “When you’ve been around aviation a long time, you get to know a lot of dead people…” I was just a kid when I saw a pilot take off in his Cessna and immediately proceed with a clean stall spin right after takeoff about 1000 ft. away from me.  It doesn't look good, it doesn't sound good, it doesn't feel like in the movies; I never forgot that.  Then it's been my chief instructor, then the chief mechanic I knew, then Tony Durizzi, and this good judge (Wendell Durr) and then Shannon Knoepflein…
Last year I came across this excellent course put together by John and Martha King. This was certainly one of the best buys I ever made. After the recent events and discussions, I decided to go through its paces again during the weekend.
Here are a few of their best punch lines:

>  Risks left unmanaged are unacceptable…
>  Lie to your mother in law, if you want, but don’t lie to yourself…
>  To discover the principles of aviation risk management – ARM – by trial and error is not a good idea, it’s risky and not efficient.
>  Experience is a hard teacher, it gives the test first, and the lesson afterwards, and many do not live through this experience…
>  When the risk is vague and indefinite and the benefit specific, people don’t do a good job of making decisions…
>  Bright people can do some incredibly dumb things…
>  Experts make as many mistakes as novices ;  experts are better at catching mistakes.
>  The pilot “is” one of the risk factors on every flight.

I won't express judgment.  As you rightfully pointed out, we don't have all the facts anyways, but you do.  So, I friendly challenge you to take the risk management course from John and Martha King, analyze the process decision that led to your flight with a dead battery and no electrical equipment, under adverse weather conditions, and to your continued flight under what many of us consider adverse conditions or very limited options.
Over the years, many of our fellow listers contributed to our collective education by providing accounts of errors or mishaps that were, frankly, not very flattering for themselves.  Yet they found the courage and humility to inform us.

Will you please follow John and Martha King's course, debrief yourself following their guidelines and provide us with a factual analysis of what you would and would not do in that perspective.
Thanks in advance, Lorn,
Alain   :-)

http://www.kingschools.com/PracticalRiskManagement.asp

PS I can's help but think about how you would have dealt with a combination of your flight conditions plus Rick's engine problem...
Murphy is perverse...

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