Sender: "Marvin Kaye" <marv@lancaironline.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:01:30 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-430421@logan.com>
Received-SPF: pass
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.138.206; envelope-from=MikeEasley@aol.com
From: MikeEasley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [LML] Different wing washout?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1096030998"


-------------------------------1096030998
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan,

I brought up the wing washout thing with Tim Ong.  After our phone call, he 
checked the jigs at the factory and their straight.  I'm not sure whether the 
twist was introduced in the Phillipines and the jigs in Redmond weren't able to 
get it back to straight, not sure.  It seems that the right roll is happening 
to just about everybody.

Tim did tell me that any warping would be removed when the bottom skin is 
bonded.  That second skin locks in the twist.  So I'm still wondering why my 
wings are that different, seems like something went wrong in Redmond, maybe my 
wing wasn't positioned correctly on the jigs for closing, I'll probably never 
know.

I checked back at my post from April, it was 1.7 degrees, not 2.7, still 
significant though.

Here's the text from the Yahoo Groups post:

I measured both my wings from the center of the leading edge to the top of 
the trailing edge.  I measured out 3, 6, 9, 12, and 14 1/2 feet from the inboard 
edge of the wing and made tape marks and the leading and trailing edges.  I 
checked each measurement twice, some three times.  For the measurements that 
were on the aileron trailing edge, I was careful to have the ailerons centered 
and I also checked to the trailing edge of the upper wing surface too.

Inboard edge of wing,  Left side +.1 deg
3' out, about a third of flap length, Left side +.4 deg
6' out, about two thirds of the flap length, Left +1.0 deg
9' out, end of flap, equal
12' out, middle of aileron, equal
14.5' out, outer end of aileron, Left +1.7 deg

Maybe it's my imagination, but I swear, standing behind the tail, I can see 
the difference at the wing tips.  I measured the tips 4 different ways:

1. Center of the leading edge to upper trailing edge of the ailerons
2. Center of the leading edge to upper trailing edge of the upper wing skin
3. Angle of the last 6" or so of the upper trailing edge of the upper wing 
skin
4. With a 2" block of wood on the upper trailing edge of the upper wing skin 
and the level resting on the block and on the wing approximately 2 feet 
forward of the trailing edge.

All 4 measurements at 14.5 feet showed between 1.2 and 1.7 degrees of 
incidence difference between wings.

These measurements might confirm what Bryan found.  My inboard measurements 
are within 1/10th of a degree, good enough for me.  But all but two of the 
other measurements show more incidence on the left wing, and the last one is huge!

Another thing that seemed odd...

If the inboard edges of the flap are the same (only .1 deg difference), and 
the outboard edges of the flaps are the same, how can the middle sections be 
off?  I checked for curvature of the trailing edges of the flaps, and the right 
flap does curve up slightly, but not enough to explain the 1 degree of 
difference.  Hmmmmm

I also checked the change in angle of the control surfaces (washout).

Left flap washout 2 deg
Left aileron washout 2 deg
Right flap washout 3.1 deg
Right aileron washout 2.6 deg

Note: 1/2 degree incidence equals about 5/8" at the wing inboard edge.

Mike Easley
Colorado Springs

-------------------------------1096030998
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META charset=3DUS-ASCII http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>Dan,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I brought up the wing washout thing with Tim Ong.&nbsp; After our phone=
 call, he checked the jigs at the factory and their straight.&nbsp; I'm not=20=
sure whether the twist was introduced in the Phillipines and the jigs in Red=
mond weren't able to get it back to straight, not sure.&nbsp; It seems that=20=
the right roll is happening to just about everybody.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tim did tell me that any warping would be removed when the bottom skin=20=
is bonded.&nbsp; That second skin locks in the twist.&nbsp; So I'm still won=
dering why my wings are that different, seems like something went wrong in R=
edmond, maybe my wing wasn't positioned correctly on the jigs for closing, I=
'll probably never know.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I checked back at my post from April, it was 1.7 degrees, not 2.7, stil=
l significant though.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Here's the text from the Yahoo Groups post:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I measured both my wings from the center of the leading edge to the top=
 of the trailing edge.&nbsp; I measured out 3, 6, 9, 12, and 14 1/2 feet fro=
m the inboard edge of the wing and made tape marks and the leading and trail=
ing edges.&nbsp; I checked each measurement twice, some three times.&nbsp; F=
or the measurements that were on the aileron trailing edge, I was careful to=
 have the ailerons centered and I also checked to the trailing edge of the u=
pper wing surface too.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Inboard edge of wing,&nbsp; Left side +.1 deg</DIV>
<DIV>3' out, about a third of&nbsp;flap length,&nbsp;Left side +.4 deg</DIV>
<DIV>6' out, about two thirds of the flap length, Left +1.0 deg</DIV>
<DIV>9' out, end of flap, equal</DIV>
<DIV>12' out, middle of aileron, equal</DIV>
<DIV>14.5' out, outer end of aileron, Left +1.7 deg</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Maybe it's my imagination, but I swear, standing behind the tail, I can=
 see the difference at the wing tips.&nbsp; I measured the tips 4 different=20=
ways:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1. Center of the leading edge to upper trailing edge of the ailerons</D=
IV>
<DIV>2. Center of the leading edge to upper trailing edge of the upper wing=20=
skin</DIV>
<DIV>3. Angle of the last 6" or so of the upper trailing edge of the upper w=
ing skin</DIV>
<DIV>4. With a 2" block of wood on the upper trailing edge of the upper wing=
 skin and the level resting on the block and&nbsp;on the wing approximately=20=
2 feet forward of the trailing edge.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>All 4 measurements at 14.5 feet showed between 1.2 and 1.7 degrees of i=
ncidence difference between wings.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>These measurements might confirm what Bryan found.&nbsp; My inboard mea=
surements are within 1/10th of a degree, good enough for me.&nbsp; But all b=
ut two of the other measurements show more incidence on the left wing, and t=
he last one is huge!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Another thing that seemed odd...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If the inboard edges of the flap are the same (only .1 deg difference),=
 and the outboard edges of the flaps are the same, how can the middle sectio=
ns be off?&nbsp; I checked for curvature of the trailing edges of the flaps,=
 and the right flap does curve up slightly, but not enough to explain the 1=20=
degree of difference.&nbsp; Hmmmmm</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I also checked the change in angle of the control surfaces (washout).</=
DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Left flap washout 2 deg</DIV>
<DIV>Left aileron washout 2 deg</DIV>
<DIV>Right flap washout 3.1 deg</DIV>
<DIV>Right aileron washout 2.6 deg</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Note: 1/2 degree incidence equals about 5/8" at the wing inboard edge.<=
/DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mike Easley</DIV>
<DIV>Colorado Springs</DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

-------------------------------1096030998--