Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:32:58 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.2) with ESMTP id 421327 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:55:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.137; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id q.85.1677178a (1320) for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:54:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <85.1677178a.2e7ef7a8@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:54:32 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: AOA X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1095605671" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 -------------------------------1095605671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/2004 8:59:17 AM Central Standard Time, marv@lancaironline.net writes: You mentioned that you liked the way I fly a "high speed pass". This is a very simple maneuver until you reach the point that your nose is still up at 45 degrees or more and you're running out of airspeed. Don't be looking at your AOA for any help. And please, don't even start one of these unless you are comfortable with stalls, stall avoidance, spin prevention, and unusual attitude recovery in your airplane. Mark, Stalls - I was always uncomfortable. Stall avoidance - I have devoted much of my learning experiences to this concept. I still need all the help I can get. From time to time I use slow flight (at reasonable altitudes), my butt and the AOA to remind myself of how pre-stall feels, looks and smells (oh, that's me that smells). During certain high speed maneuvers I am happy to maintain sufficient lift reserve to avoid "surprise!" Spin prevention - See above -- I don't trust my small-tailed hand-built (maybe the left wing doesn't match the right) lawn dart to recover from some real-flight and weirdly-loaded (load unsecured to boot) condition not simulated in "practice." Unusual attitude - Yep, I've got one of those. If you look at Lee's statistics again, you won't see where exacting AOA control was the issue. You will see where pilots were surprised by sudden inadvertent conditions. The NTSB will never indicate "failure to maintain AOA" as a cause. Well, the outside observer/witness only observed the symptoms/results, never the AOA or other cockpit contained cause. I only know this - a stall close to the ground, usually done in a turn, has permanent irreversible consequences and you don't get to try it again. So far I have successfully stayed away from hearing "Angle Angle Push" (except sometimes at touchdown). <<<<< You're invited up to New England anytime. >>>>> Thanks, I still would like to learn some stuff closer to the edge of the envelope - stuff I don't care to self-learn. I don't like to hear myself say "Oops!" Scott PS: It seems our opinions differ a bit on the usefulness of AOA. Of course, unlike the infamous John Lear, I learned to fly (such as it is) later in life, taught by young civilian CFIs making time until they could step into a regional jet. I read a lot though. -------------------------------1095605671 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 9/19/2004 8:59:17 AM Central Standard Time,=20 marv@lancaironline.net writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>You=20 mentioned that you liked the way I fly a "high speed pass".
=20
This is a very simple maneuver until you reach the point that y= our=20 nose is
still up at 45 degrees or more and you're running out of=20 airspeed. Don't be
looking at your AOA for any help.
An= d=20 please, don't even start one of these unless you are comfortable=20 with
stalls, stall avoidance, spin prevention, and unusual attitude=20 recovery in
your airplane.

Mark,

Stalls - I was always uncomfortable.

Stall avoidance - I have devoted much of my learning experiences to thi= s=20 concept. I still need all the help I can get. From time to time I use slow=20 flight (at reasonable altitudes), my butt and the AOA to remind myself of ho= w=20 pre-stall feels, looks and smells (oh, that's me that smells).&nbs= p;=20 During certain high speed maneuvers I am happy to maintain sufficient lift=20 reserve to avoid "surprise!"

Spin prevention - See above -- I don't trust my small-tailed hand-built= =20 (maybe the left wing doesn't match the right) lawn dart to recover from some= =20 real-flight and weirdly-loaded (load unsecured to boot) condition not=20 simulated in "practice."

Unusual attitude - Yep, I've got one of those.

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>
If you look at Lee's statistics again, you won't= see=20 where exacting AOA
control was the issue. You will see where pilo= ts=20 were surprised by sudden
inadvertent conditions.
The NTSB wil= l=20 never indicate "failure to maintain AOA" as a cause.

Well, the outside observer/witness only observed the symptoms/results,=20 never the AOA or other cockpit contained cause. I only know this=20= - a=20 stall close to the ground, usually done in a turn, has permanent irreversibl= e=20 consequences and you don't get to try it again. So far I have successfu= lly=20 stayed away from hearing "Angle Angle Push" (except sometimes at=20 touchdown).

<<<<<

You're invited up to New England anytime.

>>>>>

Thanks, I still would like to learn some stuff closer to the edge o= f the=20 envelope - stuff I don't care to self-learn. I don't like to hear myself say= =20 "Oops!"

Scott

PS: It seems our opinions differ a bit on the usefulness of=20 AOA. Of course, unlike the infamous John Lear, I learned to fly (such=20= as=20 it is) later in life, taught by young civilian CFIs making time until they c= ould=20 step into a regional jet. I read a lot though.

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