Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:16:30 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.28.218] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.1) with ESMTP id 412970 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:04:00 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.225.28.218; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from mxip17.cluster1.charter.net (mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.147]) by mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8G33UCM025310 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:03:30 -0400 Received: from sc3-24.217.131.57.charter-stl.com (HELO axs) (24.217.131.57) by mxip17.cluster1.charter.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 2004 23:03:30 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.84,157,1091419200"; d="scan'208"; a="310099180:sNHT13578318" X-Original-Message-ID: <001a01c49b99$beb74580$6401a8c0@axs> From: "terrence o'neill" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Updated Accident Summary and Graphs X-Original-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:03:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Lee, Excellent records. Defining 'cause' of a crash as -- the last event before loss of control or impact -- of the 93 accidents on your list, I labelled 16 as caused by an 'unintentional stall', (US). . That includes two trying to lift off in ground effect, which is kind of stalling while on a ground cushion of air. That is also an unintentional stall, and woujld make it 18 'US'. Fifteen of the crashes caused preceded by unintentional stalls were fatal, one serious and one - serious injuries... stalling during a steep turn into the trees near a friend's airstrip In other words, if these pilots 'unintentionally stalled' anywhere but in ground effect, the odds were 15-to-1 against them. Airplanes don't stall unless the pilot pulls the wing to a stall AOA. The 'US' occur because pilots can't SEE what they're doing to the wing's AOA. Further, some of your crashes mentiono no recovery from a spin. Spins start with a stall; and the things I've been reading about the LNC2 are that the horizontal tail is marginal. That means it needs something to provide power to piutch the wing's AOA back down to a flying angle... either more area, maybe added with a strake which could also produce a big vortex at high angles, good also for preserving rudder power to stop rotation. Slots work nicely too; I tried them on my AristoCraft. But I think the Navy's success with AOAs shows that the best, immediate help for avoiding unintentional stalls. Just some observation. M ight be helpful. T.