Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:48:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-ExtScanner: Niversoft's Find_Attachments X-SpamCatcher-Score: Logan.com rated 2 [X] Received: from shadow.bentonrea.com ([216.7.40.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b5) with ESMTP-TLS id 151317 for marv@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:02:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 23279 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2004 03:01:48 -0000 Received: from sunnyside2-158.bentonrea.com (HELO o5f2y3) ([216.7.36.158]) (envelope-sender ) by shadow.bentonrea.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Jun 2004 03:01:45 -0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <006901c451bb$ddc92e20$9e2407d8@o5f2y3> From: "aero options bill maddox" X-Original-To: > Subject: Fw: unsafe at what speed? X-Original-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:01:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0066_01C45181.30DAE760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C45181.30DAE760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: aero options bill maddox=20 To: Lancair Mailing List=20 Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:56 AM Subject: unsafe=20 I've waited till now to see what others have said about the 4p / 4pt . = Mark K is correct that what is needed is stall strips and Jim's aoa is = also needed . Charly Kohler is correct with his assumptions on these = areas of additional safty items . These are items I believe that are a = requirement for the type of pilot that is flying this plane .The lack of = weather info needed to fly at the worst alititudes for weather . 90% of = the weather is below 30000' . The worst weather in the world is from = Denver across to the mid Atlantic and south to Florida and across to = Texas . This box is where the warm gulf air mass meets the convergence = of a cold mass air from the north . We as pilots of Lancairs for the = most don't have a radar that will support the weather so we can avoid = the cells . Remember all this bad weather is at our flying altitudes and = we can't go to 45000' or even 35000' . Careful planning and many hours = of flying around this weather as a pilot for Eastern I had the ability = to go to 35000 and have radar . I can't understand why we as pilots get = our Lancair planes in this I got to get there attitude in the weather = box I described above . These are fun planes that are faster and = approach weather quicker than anything most of the lancair pilots are = used too . =20 We need to learn from our mistakes or we as pilots can't go forward . = Just in Washington St. for example we have lost or injured pilots in = this plane as well. George F. from Spokane took off in a blinding snow = storm and ended up in a multi million dollar home along the lake in = Coeur d alene , Johnny T. landed short of an air field back in the = Dayton area while on approach, bounced off the dike and the plane caught = fire . Johnny got out with his grandson but Johnny has sense lost part = of his leg and burns as well . Tony D a pilot with many hours in heavy = iron lost his life in a plane that ended up indicating more fuel than he = had for the construction of the inner wing vents were incorrect. Now = this is just Washington St. pilots and these are human errors or as we = in the pilot community call them PILOT ERRORS. The Plane isn't made to = fly in icing , land short or run out of fuel . I can go into more detail = about the three accidents above but for the lancair builders and pilots = ,this is the basic problems with our accidents to date in Washington . I = think we need the re-think our flying commitment and get involved with = the training group that really has the right stuff . Charley Kohler = would be my first trainer followed by Lancair . I want to beat my drum = about what happened at the last lancair labor day BBQ . A pilot safety = meeting was iniated -what a wonderful idea . Lancair could take the ball = and run with this and go all the way with 2 simulators for training . = Incorporate the Columbia 300 as well with the 4 and /4pt , es and = Legacy/ 320 as another sim . Building a program into a sim that gives = the feel and flying characteristics of these plans isn't that difficult = . This would be the best learning tool available for the 300 to x hour = pilot . There are some pilots out there like Brent Regan that are ahead = of there hours as pilots but I think Brent would be one of the first = that would step forward to take advantage of learning on a sim . There = is one thing I've learned in my many years of Flying is money doesn't = substitute for common sense . I hadn't seen much in common sense with = this pilot group but a lot of money .I have seen excellent builders but = poor pilots and the same in reverse . I've seen where both a poor = builder and pilot as well and some are both excellent builders as = being a good pilots . Building this plane is one of the most complex = jobs to accomplish and then be the factory and determine the gross = weight, boy what a problem . I'll guess that some builders before they = even do a lancair weight and balance have already determined the gross = weight . When the plane was conceived in the 90's as a 4p the gross was = 2950 or around that figure . Why did this get so out of hand ,3500 lbs. = will take the weight way out of the envelope . This plane is a real 2 = seat plane with baggage if you really want to do the numbers . I've seen = Lancair several years ago put 4 big people / full of fuel [extended = tanks then 95 gals.]and 100 lbs. or better of adds in the baggage = compartment and fly to Eaa . Just cause you can fly doesn't mean it will = when the engine quits. Lancair Has had a rough time with [check = Pilots]and pilots . One ended up crashing a new plane on takeoff in = Canada and another ended up in the trees in a narrow runway in Idaho = after he left Lancair I believe [Not sure on whether he was still with = Lancair ] and another designated pilot for lancair took a prototype 300 = into the Columbia river at pdx with nill instrument time and another = took a 320 into a flat spin after loosing the prop with a well aft cg . = I would like the factory to get involved in a valid safety program to = help the less apt to become apt with meeting and sims And we need more = Charley Kohlers . Bill = Maddox ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C45181.30DAE760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: aero = options bill=20 maddox
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:56 AM
Subject: unsafe

I've waited till now to see what others have said = about the 4p=20 / 4pt . Mark K   is correct that what is needed is stall strips and = Jim's=20 aoa is also needed . Charly Kohler is correct with his assumptions on = these=20 areas of additional safty items . These are items I believe that are a=20 requirement for the type of pilot that is flying this plane .The lack of = weather=20 info needed to fly at the worst alititudes for weather . 90% of the = weather is=20 below 30000' . The worst weather in the world is from Denver across to = the mid=20 Atlantic and south to Florida and across to Texas . This box is where = the warm=20 gulf air mass meets the convergence of a cold mass air from the north . = We as=20 pilots of Lancairs for the most don't have a radar that will support = the =20 weather so we can avoid the cells . Remember all this bad weather is at = our=20 flying altitudes and we can't go to 45000'  or even 35000' . = Careful=20 planning and many hours of flying around this weather as a pilot for = Eastern I=20 had the ability to go to 35000 and have radar . I can't understand why = we as=20 pilots get our Lancair planes in this I got to get = there=20 attitude in the weather box I described above . These are fun = planes that=20 are faster and approach weather quicker than anything most of the = lancair pilots=20 are used too .  
   We need to learn from our mistakes or = we as=20 pilots can't go forward . Just in Washington St. for example we = have lost=20 or injured pilots in this plane as well. George F. from Spokane = took off in=20 a blinding snow storm and ended up in a multi million dollar home along = the lake=20 in Coeur d alene , Johnny T. landed short of an air field back in = the=20 Dayton area while on approach, bounced off the dike and the plane caught = fire .=20 Johnny got out with his grandson but Johnny has sense lost part of his = leg and=20 burns as well . Tony D a pilot with many hours in heavy iron lost his = life in a=20 plane that ended up indicating more fuel than he had for the = construction of the=20 inner wing vents were incorrect.  Now = this is just=20 Washington St. pilots and these are human errors or as we in the pilot = community=20 call them PILOT ERRORS. The Plane isn't made to fly in icing , land = short or run=20 out of fuel . I can go into more detail about the three accidents = above but=20 for the lancair builders and pilots ,this is the basic problems with our = accidents to date in Washington . I think we need the re-think our = flying=20 commitment and get involved with the training group that really has the = right=20 stuff . Charley Kohler would be my first trainer followed by Lancair . I = want to=20 beat my drum about what happened at the last lancair labor day BBQ . A = pilot=20 safety meeting was iniated -what a wonderful idea . Lancair could take = the ball=20 and run with this and go all the way with 2 simulators for training = .=20 Incorporate the Columbia 300 as well with the 4 and /4pt , es and = Legacy/ 320 as=20 another sim  . Building a program into a sim that gives the=20 feel  and flying characteristics of these plans isn't that = difficult .=20 This would be the best learning tool available for the 300 to x hour = pilot .=20 There are some pilots out there like Brent Regan that are ahead of there = hours=20 as pilots but I think Brent would be one of the first that would step = forward to=20 take advantage of learning on a sim . There is one thing I've learned in = my many=20 years of Flying is money doesn't substitute for  common sense . I = hadn't=20 seen much in common sense with this pilot group but a lot of money .I = have seen=20 excellent builders but poor pilots and the same in reverse . I've seen = where=20 both a  poor builder and pilot  as well and some  = are both=20 excellent builders as being a good pilots . Building this plane is one = of the=20 most complex jobs to accomplish and then  be the factory and = determine the=20 gross weight, boy what a problem . I'll guess  that some builders = before=20 they even do a lancair weight and balance have already determined the = gross=20 weight . When the plane was conceived in the 90's as a 4p the gross was = 2950 or=20 around that figure . Why did this get so out of hand ,3500 = lbs. will take=20 the weight way out of the envelope . This plane is a real 2 seat plane = with=20 baggage if you really want to do the numbers . I've seen Lancair several = years=20 ago put 4 big people / full of fuel [extended tanks then 95 = gals.]and 100=20 lbs. or better of adds in the baggage compartment and fly to Eaa . Just = cause=20 you can fly doesn't mean it will when the engine quits. Lancair Has had = a rough=20 time with [check Pilots]and pilots  . One ended up crashing a = new=20 plane on takeoff in Canada and another ended up in the trees in a narrow = runway=20 in Idaho after he left Lancair I believe [Not sure on whether he was = still with=20 Lancair ] and another designated pilot for lancair took a prototype =  300 into the Columbia river at pdx with nill instrument time and = another=20 took a 320 into a flat spin after loosing the prop with a well aft = cg . I=20 would like the factory to get involved in a valid safety program to help = the=20 less apt to become apt with meeting and sims And we need more Charley=20 Kohlers =20 .            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;     =20  Bill Maddox
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