Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:28:33 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1b9) with ESMTP id 2473706 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:43:33 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id q.4c.1f97158e (4418); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:43:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <4c.1f97158e.2c431e6e@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:43:26 EDT Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?LOP=20FLOP,=20ROP=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=20LASAR=20Follow=20?= =?UTF-8?Q?Up!=20=20?= X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net, N360TG@earthlink.net, DonGoetz@mindspring.com, Cozyone2@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1058129006" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 4021 -------------------------------1058129006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In early June I wrote an email trying to get the answers to power/speed=20 related questions. I asked these questions because I was trying to get answ= ers=20 without much additional effort on my part. The LML was posted with some ans= wers=20 and I got a few privately =E2=80=93 all of which only raised more questions.= Over=20 time I will try to expand on many of those, but only after the Kitty Hawk to= OSH=20 race is over. =20 This e-mail is the first of probably several on the LASAR ignition. As=20 advertised, LASAR claims CHTs will be 20 or so degrees hotter and EGTs about= 80=20 degrees cooler. They also claim better =E2=80=9Cgas mileage=E2=80=9D or gre= ater power. =20 Installed in the fall of 2001, over a period of about a month, I have said t= hat I=20 experienced =E2=80=9Csprightlier take-off runs=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cexubera= nt climb rates=E2=80=9D. I also =E2=80=9C felt=E2=80=9D I had more power but this may have been cooler outside tempera= tures and=20 psychological effects of new product afterglow. In the spring of 2002 I ran= a=20 timed 202 Kts in the Sun 100 race, but in June of that year, I had my engine= =20 completely re-built (another long story) and did not fly it again until=20 September of last year. It seemed like a dog. Finally, I replaced and cali= brated=20 the Pitot and OAT probes and, along with other cleanups, I was getting close= to=20 my prior indicated/true speeds =E2=80=93 but not quite there. Note that jus= t=20 recently, I solved a problem with the fuel flow sensor and it is now very ac= curate. =20 Recently, in preparation for the Cup race, I have been doing high power runs= =20 at different altitudes with unsatisfactory results and cooling problems. No= t=20 dangerous cooling, but just hotter than it should be. Finally, I had 60 hou= rs=20 on the engine and stable oil usage, a strong indication that it was broken=20 in. Still, I was fooling with cooling (rhyme unintended). Anyway, it was t= hese=20 many puzzles that prompted my list of questions. =20 George Braly=E2=80=99s LASAR response was mainly correct, but did not make m= e =E2=80=9Cfeel=E2=80=9D=20 any better. In summary, he said Hotter sparks (higher voltage, longer duration)=E2=80=A6. Is marketing hype. CHT/EGT effect is from advanced timing. Most engines are over timed on takeoff with factory timing.=20 Advancing the timing further (sea level, std day) is probably counter=20 productive with respect to HP and it is guaranteed to substantially increase= the peak=20 internal cylinder pressures in an undesirable way. Spark advance at altitude can improve HP (running LOP). =20 A call to LASAR confirmed that the spark is from a higher voltage only at=20 start (like Slick-Start) but is about the same as produced by magneto when t= he=20 engine is running. The representative would not reveal any timing informati= on=20 as it is =E2=80=9Cproprietary=E2=80=9D, but the specs note that spark durati= on is 40 degrees=20 and advance may be as much as 41 degrees. =20 =20 So, last week I decided to start from scratch with some comparisons of=20 running with either the LASAR or the mags and I wired a panel switch to do j= ust that=20 testing. Also, I am not going to test takeoff or climb effects because=20 collecting comparable data, by hand, in smooth air, in the summer is close t= o=20 impossible. For now, I want to report on some preliminary observations =E2= =80=93 before I=20 talk to LASAR again. June 9 June 12 - BKL -> ARR =E2=80=A6LASAR OFF ON OFF ON Barometer 29.87 same 29.97 same P Altitude 8550 same 4500 same D Altitude 9940 same 5500 same Temp in C 26 same 19 same =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.MAP 23.1 same 24.8 same =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.RPM 2660 same 2480 same .Oil Temp 176 ? 174 180 =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.GPH 9.9 10.1 10.1 9.8 .Avg CHT 380 405 375 400 .Avg EGT 1340 1290 1310 1300 Deg ROP 100 100 90 Not releaned =20 =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..IAS 173 169 177 173 =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.TAS 200 195 191 185 =20 The preliminary says that I have harmed my performance in ways that George=20 outlined above. I will try to find the altitude at which the LASAR has some= =20 positive effect when running best power. Maybe my ram air is confounding th= e=20 LASAR? Maybe it is not seeing the same sensor data I am (I can check this w= ith=20 my laptop)? The LASAR people said that there is a detonation buffer built in= =E2=80=93=20 maybe this is a negative effect? I thought more power =3D more heat but,=20 apparently, more heat does not equal more power. =20 More on this later. If you are considering LASAR, wait a bit. I chose LASA= R=20 for the benefits of an electronic ignition (timing advance) with the very=20 straight forward backup of mags. Well, I got the mags with an electronic=20 ignition backup to keep my oil warm on cold days. Scott Krueger 2003 Air Venture Cup Racer #94 Sky2high@aol.com LNC2 N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR) -------------------------------1058129006 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

In early June I wrote an=20= email=20 trying to get the answers to power/speed related questions.  I asked these questions because I=20= was trying to=20 get answers without much additional effort on my part.  The LML was posted with some answers and I got a few=20 privately =E2=80=93 all of which only raised more questions.  Over time I will try to expand on many of those, but only= after=20 the Kitty Hawk to OSH race is over.

 

This e-mail is the first=20= of=20 probably several on the LASAR ignition.&nb= sp;=20 As advertised, LASAR claims CHTs will be 20 or so degrees hotter and=20= EGTs=20 about 80 degrees cooler.  They= =20 also claim better =E2=80=9Cgas mileage=E2=80=9D or greater power.  Installed in the fall of 2001, over a period of about a m= onth,=20 I have said that I experienced =E2=80=9Csprightlier take-off runs=E2=80=9D a= nd =E2=80=9Cexuberant=20 climb rates=E2=80=9D.  I also=20= =E2=80=9Cfelt=E2=80=9D I had=20 more power but this may have been cooler outside temperatures and=20 psychological effects of new product afterglow. =20 In the spring of 2002 I ran a timed 202 Kts in the Sun 100 race, but=20= in=20 June of that year, I had my engine completely re-built (another long story)=20= and=20 did not fly it again until September of last year.  It seemed like a dog.&n= bsp;=20 Finally, I replaced and calibrated the Pitot and OAT probes and, alon= g=20 with other cleanups, I was getting close to my prior indicated/true speeds=20= =E2=80=93=20 but not quite there.  Note tha= t just=20 recently, I solved a problem with the fuel flow sensor and it is now very=20 accurate.

 

Recently, in preparation=20= for=20 the Cup race, I have been doing high power runs at different altitudes with=20 unsatisfactory results and cooling problems.  Not dangerous cooling, but just hotter than it should be.=   Finally, I had 60 hours on the eng= ine and=20 stable oil usage, a strong indication that it was broken in.  Still, I was fooling with cooling=20= (rhyme=20 unintended).  Anyway, it was t= hese many=20 puzzles that prompted my list of questions.

 

George Braly=E2=80=99s LA= SAR response=20 was mainly correct, but did not make me =E2=80=9Cfeel=E2=80=9D any better.  In summary, he said

  1. Hotter sparks (higher voltage, longer duration)=E2=80= =A6. Is=20 marketing hype.
  2. CHT/EGT effect is from advanced timing.
  3. Most engines are over timed on takeoff with factory ti= ming.=20
  4. Advancing the timing further (sea level, std day) is=20 probably counter productive with respect to HP and it is guaranteed to subst= antially=20 increase the peak internal cylinder pressures in an undesirable way.
  5. Spark advance at altitude can improve HP (running=20 LOP).

 

A call to LASAR confirmed= that=20 the spark is from a higher voltage only at start (like Slick-Start) but is=20 about the same as produced by magneto when the engine is running.  The representative would not revea= l any timing=20 information as it is =E2=80=9Cproprietary=E2=80=9D, but the specs note that=20= spark duration is=20 40 degrees and advance may be as much as 41 degrees.

 

 

So, last week I decided t= o=20 start from scratch with some comparisons of running with either the LASAR or= the=20 mags and I wired a panel switch to do just that testing.  Also, I am not going to test takeo= ff or climb effects=20 because collecting comparable data, by hand, in smooth air, in the=20 summer is close to impossible. =20= For now,=20 I want to report on some preliminary observations =E2=80=93 before I talk to= LASAR=20 again.

 

           =       &n bsp;  June 9         June 12 -=20 BKL -> ARR

=E2=80=A6LASAR  OFF   =20 ON    OFF     ON

Barometer  29.87 same 29.97  same

P Altitude  8550  =20 same 4500   same

D Altitude  9940  =20 same 5500   same

Temp in C  26     same&= nbsp;  19      same

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.MAP  23.1  =20 same  24.8    same

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.RPM  2660  same=20 2480   same

.Oil Temp  176      ?      174     =20 180

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.GPH  9.9     10.1&= nbsp;  10.1      9.8

.Avg CHT  380   =20 405    375      400

.Avg EGT 1340  1290  =20 1310   1300

Deg ROP  100     100&n= bsp;   =20 90     Not= =20 releaned 

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..IAS  173   =20 169    =20 177      <= /SPAN>173

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.TAS  200   =20 195    =20 191      <= /SPAN>185

 

The preliminary says that= I=20 have harmed my performance in ways that George outlined above.  I will try to find the altitude at= which the LASAR=20 has some positive effect when running best power.  Maybe my ram air is confounding the LASAR?  Maybe it is not seeing the same se= nsor data I am=20 (I can check this with my laptop)? The LASAR people said that there is a=20 detonation buffer built in =E2=80=93 maybe this is a negative effect?  I thought more power =3D more heat= but, apparently, more=20 heat does not equal more power.

 

More on this later.  If you are considering LASAR, wait= a=20 bit.  I chose LASAR for the be= nefits of=20 an electronic ignition (timing advance) with the very straight forward backu= p=20 of mags.  Well, I got the mags= =20 with an electronic ignition backup to keep my oil warm on cold days.

 

Scott=20 Krueger
2003 Air Venture Cup Racer #94
Sky2high@aol.com
LNC2 N92EX=20= IO320=20 Aurora, IL (KARR)
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