Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:07:32 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [148.78.247.23] (HELO cassiopeia.email.starband.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0b8) with ESMTP id 1750545 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:03:06 -0400 Received: from regandesigns.com (vsat-148-63-101-227.c002.t7.mrt.starband.net [148.63.101.227]) by cassiopeia.email.starband.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g8NG2nJH032010 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:02:55 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <3D8F3B89.7020500@regandesigns.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:04:25 -0700 From: Brent Regan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-To: Lancair Subject: Re: Balancing Elevators Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070701080307060309010805" --------------070701080307060309010805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill states: <> Don't be disturbed Bill, slightly uncomfortable would be better and I may be able to tell you why. Hinged control surfaces need to be balanced. By that I mean that the center of gravity needs to be on the hinge line so that the inertia of the surface does not produce a positive feedback under gust conditions that could lead to flutter. In the case of the elevator you do not want the inertia (CG) behind the hinge line. If it was then an upward acceleration of the tail would produce a torque that would deflect the elevator down and add force to whatever was accelerating the tail in the first place. Counterweights are added at moment arms to provide balancing torque to move the CG to the centerline. The longer the arm the less weight is needed. BUT the longer the arm the more flexible it is and the lower the spring rate of the assembly. Imagine that you balanced the elevator using a weight at the end of a length of welding rod. You can achieve a static balance this way BUT if the tail accelerates upward then the rod will bend and the elevator will deflect downward. It is therefore important that the assembly is balanced AND stiff. The ailerons have the best configuration for stiffness as the weight is distributed along their length and well coupled into the structure. Unfortunately the weight is closely coupled so a lot of weight is needed and weight is bad. Getting back to the condition where the elevators are not balanced individually but balanced as an assembly, the result of this is that the balancing torque must be transmitted through the hinge / control rod brackets. This is fine if the forces are small. As the forces increase, or as counterweights are added at this point, the stresses through these parts increases and the potential for a failure from a crack or loose fastener increases. If all the elevator counterweight was hung from a bolted assembly then flutter possibly could be induced if the bolts were simply loose and not even failed. I cant say if the elevator center hinge weldment has been reinforced since I built my airplane but I can say that I would not add a counterweight arm to mine. But that is just my gut opinion. Several years back there was a group that was trying to build an supersonic experimental jet. The prototype crashed because a counterweight on the elevator came off, the resulting flutter failed the elevator that caused the nose to pitch up into a 25 G pullup. The right wing folded and the main gear failed and was ejected out of the bottom of the airplane. The gear was found a half mile down range from the fuselage. Some bright light had attached the elevator counterweight with pop rivets. For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse a battle was lost, for want of the battle the war was lost. For want of a war the King was lost. We trust our lives to bolted assemblies every day but a wise man does this as infrequently as necessary. IMHO individually balanced elevators are the way to go. Nothing to break, nothing to fall off and nothing to forget (counterweight wise). Regards Brent Regan --------------070701080307060309010805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill states:
<<Having two elevators with grossing different weights hanging on the back of the plane' even with added weight in the center, I find very disturbing.>>

Don't be disturbed Bill, slightly uncomfortable would be better and I may be able to tell you why. Hinged control surfaces need to be balanced. By that I mean that the center of gravity needs to be on the hinge line so that the inertia of the surface does not produce a positive feedback under gust conditions that could lead to flutter. In the case of the elevator you do not want the inertia (CG) behind the hinge line. If it was then an upward acceleration of the tail would produce a torque that would deflect the elevator down and add force to whatever was accelerating the tail in the first place.

Counterweights are added at moment arms to provide balancing torque to move the CG to the centerline. The longer the arm the less weight is needed. BUT the longer the arm the more flexible it is and the lower the spring rate of the assembly.  Imagine that you balanced the elevator using a weight at the end of a length of welding rod. You can achieve a static balance this way BUT if the tail accelerates upward then the rod will bend and the elevator will deflect downward. It is therefore important that the assembly is balanced AND stiff.

The ailerons have the best configuration for stiffness as the weight is distributed along their length and well coupled into the structure. Unfortunately the weight is closely coupled so a lot of weight is needed and weight is bad.

Getting back to the condition where the elevators are not balanced individually but balanced as an assembly, the result of this is that the balancing torque must be transmitted through the hinge / control rod brackets. This is fine if the forces are small. As the forces increase, or as counterweights are added at this point, the stresses through these parts increases and the potential for a failure from a crack or loose fastener increases. If all the elevator counterweight  was hung from a bolted assembly then flutter possibly could be induced if the bolts were simply loose and not even failed. I cant say if the elevator center hinge weldment has been reinforced since I built my airplane but I can say that I would not add a counterweight arm to mine. But that is just my gut opinion.

Several years back there was a group that was trying to build an supersonic experimental jet. The prototype crashed because a counterweight on the elevator came off, the resulting flutter failed the elevator that caused the nose to pitch up into a 25 G pullup. The right wing folded and the main gear failed and was ejected out of the bottom of the airplane. The gear was found a half mile down range from the fuselage. Some bright light had attached the elevator counterweight with pop rivets.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse a battle was lost, for want of the battle the war was lost. For want of a war the King was lost.

We trust our lives to bolted assemblies every day but a wise man does this as infrequently as necessary. IMHO individually balanced elevators are the way to go. Nothing to break, nothing to fall off and nothing to forget (counterweight wise).  

Regards
Brent Regan


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