Return-Path: Received: from pop3.olsusa.com ([63.150.212.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.8) with ESMTP id 1153802 for rob@logan.com; Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:51:45 -0500 Received: from palrel10.hp.com ([156.153.255.245]) by pop3.olsusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-71866U8000L800S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:36:35 -0500 Received: from xparelay2.corp.hp.com (xparelay2.corp.hp.com [15.58.137.112]) by palrel10.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9DEC0032C for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from xpabh2.corp.hp.com (xpabh2.corp.hp.com [15.58.136.192]) by xparelay2.corp.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849DD99 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by xpabh2.corp.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <2FKQ16GZ>; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:40:11 -0800 Message-ID: <12BB8DBFEF43BF49AC351D6C266E903103686BA3@xpa04.mayfield.hp.com> From: "FROST,PETER (HP-USA,ex3)" To: lancair.list@olsusa.com Subject: RE: Trim tab counter balance Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:40:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: lancair.list@olsusa.com Reply-To: lancair.list@olsusa.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This question for the aerodynamicists out there (both real and amateur): How come trim tabs don't have to be counter balanced? Seems that they are subject to flutter too as are all foil surfaces. I suspect that trim >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One perspective from an amateur: Fixed aerodynamic surfaces depend on shape and structural stiffness to prevent flutter. Movable surfaces cannot be rigidly attached by definition, so they depend on balance. A trim tab is considered fixed since it is held in place, but there should be no slop in the linkage. Examples follow if you're interested. Fixed: Consider the forward swept wing of an x29. A gust deflects the wingtip upwards. If the wing is not stiff enough, the upward deflection of the wingtip twists the wing and increases the angle of attack at the tip. This generates more lift at the tip, further deflecting the tip upwards and twisting the wing. Wing strength will overcome a small deflection, and the tip snaps downward to a negative angle of attack. The downforce thus generated further deflects the tip down. If the wing is strong enough the wing snaps up and the cycle repeats until the wing is either stabilized in some way, or the increasing deflections rip it off. This is flutter. Airliner wings are not stiff relative to their aerodynamic size, since stiffness means weight. However they do use aft sweep, since this damps out wingtip deflection. (the wing twists in the reverse of the direction described above) The X29 has very stiff wings, and computer controlled ailerons to damp out any oscillation. A trim tab is aerodynamically very small relative to the stiffness with which it is attached to a control surface, so it does not flutter. Movable: Consider an underbalanced (center of mass behind the hinge line) elevator. A gust deflects the tail upwards. Since center of mass is behind the hinge line, the elevator deflects downward. This increases lift (or reduces downforce) of the tail, causing the upward deflection to be exaggerated. At some point the tail stops rising and begins to drop. The elevator mass continues upward, and deflects the elevator up, reducing lift. (increasing downforce) This exaggerates the downward motion of the tail. This exaggeration of deflection is flutter, and if it is strong enough or continues long enough, the part that is fluttering comes off the aircraft. By moving the center of mass to the hinge line, no exaggeration takes place, so no flutter. If you overbalance the part, moving the center of mass ahead of the hinge line, gust deflections (and control inputs) are countered rather than exaggerated. You don't really want overbalance either, for other reasons. Peter Frost. LIV: wings, tail, fuselage, no funds. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye@olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>