Return-Path: Received: from mail.tsisp.com ([65.23.108.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b6) with ESMTP-TLS id 233994 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 23:08:36 -0400 Received: from stevehome by mail.tsisp.com (Technical Support Inc.) with SMTP id CQA74584 for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:47:47 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Steve Brooks" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] EC2 programming Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:49:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c45fdf$21fc5ff0$6400a8c0@WORKGROUP.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C45FBD.9AEC4690" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C45FBD.9AEC4690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, I have seen similar results, though I have the opposite problem. Mine falters if I turn it to the lean side, but Runs fine full rich. At low RPM' s I can turn the mixture lean or rich, and the ratio gauge (and engine) follows. At higher RPM's I am running in the center, or low center of the air ratio, but I can't make it run richer. It goes one light richer with the mixture full rich, but that's all. At several MAP positions, I can go to mode 1 and push the button over and over, with no change, yet other MAP positions change with no problem. I think that there are only so many steps (looks like about 4 to me), and that is it. Maybe Tracey could verify that. Steve Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of John Slade Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 programming Rotarians, I'm still trying to program my EC2. Here's what I did tonight: I checked the EGO sensor by heating it with a blow torch. Voltage varied between 0.9 when hot to 0 when flame removed. (See the "how to check an EGO sensor" text below - does this sound right?). I started the engine on the ramp (at night so I could see the air/fuel (AF) gauge ). The engine started fine on full rich with cold start on. I turned off the cold start, brought the rpm up to 2500 and leaned to the center. Engine ran ok. Turn toward rich and it falters, turn toward lean and it runs better. At full lean it runs best. AF reading is in the center. If I move toward rich the reading goes higher and engine falters past center. Turn to mode 3, move program knob to left and press store button. No effect. Press again 6 times. Still no effect either on the engine or the AF reading. Turn to mode 1. Move mixture to left. Move program knob to left. Press button. No effect. Press button 4 times. Still no effect on AF reading or engine. I turned on the cold start switch. No effect on the engine or the AF reading. After this I taxied up and down a bit at various rpm settings until the temps got too high. The AF reading stayed pretty much in the center at all times. Maybe one yellow bar on occasions. The engine runs quite well at all rpm, and there wasn't much, if any, soot on the prop when I ran it with the mixture on full lean. I get the impression that the program button isn't doing anything - but the B computer has a copy of Tracy's original settings (I think) and the engine runs worse when I switch to it, so I must have changed something on A. A while back I checked that there's a ground on the proper pin when the program button is pressed, and I checked continuity on all the wires from the control panel pins to the EC2 pins. I guess I'll check all this again tomorrow. Those who've programmed an EC2 using the AF gauge - do you see an obvious effect when you store a change? How many times do you have to press the button to get a visible impact? I know we've been through all this before. I don't seem to be getting anywhere. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome. John Slade (banging my head against the wall) PS - Does the EM2 give an air fuel reading? I hope so. How to check an EGO sensor. Use a high impedence DC voltmeter as above. Clamp the sensor in a vice, or use a plier or vice-grip to hold it. Clamp your negative voltmeter lead to the case, and the positive to the output wire. Use a propane torch set to high and the inner blue flame tip to heat the fluted or perforated area of the sensor. You should see a DC voltage of at least 0.6 within 20 seconds. If not, most likely cause is open circuit internally or lead fouling. If OK so far, remove from flame. You should see a drop to under 0.1 volt within 4 seconds. If not likely silicone fouled. If still OK, heat for two full minutes and watch for drops in voltage. Sometimes, the internal connections will open up under heat. This is the same a loose wire and is a failure. If the sensor is OK at this point, and will switch from high to low quickly as you move the flame, the sensor is good. Bear in mind that good or bad is relative, with port fuel injection needing faster information than carbureted systems. ANY O2 sensor that will generate 0.9 volts or more when heated, show 0.1 volts or less within one second of flame removal, AND pass the two minute heat test is good regardless of age. When replacing a sensor, don't miss the opportunity to use the test above on the replacement. This will calibrate your evaluation skills and save you money in the future. There is almost always *no* benefit in replacing an oxygen sensor that will pass the test in the first line of this paragraph. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C45FBD.9AEC4690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jo= hn,

I = have seen similar results, though I have the opposite problem.  Mine falters if I turn it to = the lean side, but Runs fine full rich.  = At low RPM’s I can turn the mixture lean or rich, and the ratio gauge = (and engine) follows.  At higher = RPM’s I am running in the center, or low center of the air ratio, but I can’t = make it run richer.  It goes one light = richer with the mixture full rich, but that’s all.  At several MAP positions, I can go to mode 1 and push the button = over and over, with no change, yet other MAP positions change with no = problem.   I think that there are = only so many steps (looks like about 4 to me), and that is it.  Maybe Tracey could verify = that.  =

 

St= eve Brooks

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of John Slade
Sent: Thursday, July 01, = 2004 10:31 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 programming

 

Rotarians,= <= /p>

I'm still trying = to program my EC2. Here's what I did tonight:<= /p>

 <= /p>

I checked the = EGO sensor by heating it with a blow torch. Voltage varied between 0.9 when hot to = 0 when flame removed. (See the "how to check an EGO sensor" text = below - does this sound right?). <= /p>

 <= /p>

I started the = engine on the ramp (at night so I could see the air/fuel (AF) gauge = ).<= /p>

The engine = started fine on full rich with cold start on. I turned off the cold start, brought = the rpm up to 2500 and leaned to the center. Engine ran ok. Turn toward rich and = it falters, turn toward lean and it runs better. At full lean it runs best. = AF reading is in the center. If I move toward rich the reading goes higher = and engine falters past center.<= /p>

 <= /p>

Turn to mode 3, = move program knob to left and press store button. No effect. Press again 6 = times. Still no effect either on the engine or the AF reading. Turn to mode 1. = Move mixture to left. Move program knob to left. Press button. No effect. = Press button 4 times. Still no effect on AF reading or engine. I turned on the = cold start switch. No effect on the engine or the AF reading. = <= /p>

 <= /p>

After this I = taxied up and down a bit at various rpm settings until the temps got too high. The = AF reading stayed pretty much in the center at all times. Maybe one yellow = bar on occasions. The engine runs quite well at all rpm, and there wasn't = much, if any, soot on the prop when I ran it with the mixture on full = lean.<= /p>

 <= /p>

I get the = impression that the program button isn't doing anything - but the B computer has a copy = of Tracy's original settings (I think) and the engine runs worse when I = switch to it, so I must have changed something on A.  A while back I checked = that there's a ground on the proper pin when the program button is pressed, = and I checked continuity on all the wires from the control panel pins to the = EC2 pins. I guess I'll check all this again tomorrow. <= /p>

 <= /p>

Those who've = programmed an EC2 using the AF gauge - do you see an obvious effect when you store = a change? How many times do you have to press the button to get a visible = impact? <= /p>

 <= /p>

I know we've = been through all this before. I don't seem to be getting = anywhere. <= /p>

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

 <= /p>

John Slade = (banging my head against the wall)

 <= /p>

PS - Does the = EM2 give an air fuel reading? I hope so.<= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

How to check an EGO sensor.

Use a high impedence DC voltmeter as above. Clamp the sensor in
a vice, or use a plier or vice-grip to hold it. Clamp your
negative voltmeter lead to the case, and the positive to the
output wire. Use a propane torch set to high and the inner blue
flame tip to heat the fluted or perforated area of the sensor.
You should see a DC voltage of at least 0.6 within 20 seconds.
If not, most likely cause is open circuit internally or lead
fouling. If OK so far, remove from flame. You should see a
drop to under 0.1 volt within 4 seconds. If not likely silicone
fouled. If still OK, heat for two full minutes and watch for
drops in voltage. Sometimes, the internal connections will open
up under heat. This is the same a loose wire and is a failure.
If the sensor is OK at this point, and will switch from high to
low quickly as you move the flame, the sensor is good. Bear in
mind that good or bad is relative, with port fuel injection
needing faster information than carbureted systems.

ANY O2 sensor that will generate 0.9 volts or more when heated,
show 0.1 volts or less within one second of flame removal, AND
pass the two minute heat test is good regardless of age. When
replacing a sensor, don't miss the opportunity to use the test
above on the replacement. This will calibrate your evaluation
skills and save you money in the future. There is almost always
*no* benefit in replacing an oxygen sensor that will pass the
test in the first line of this paragraph.<= /p>

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