Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.116] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b3) with ESMTP id 95073 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 28 May 2004 18:30:48 -0400 Received: from unknown (195.birmingham-01-03rs.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.162.195]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004052822303911200f5ione>; Fri, 28 May 2004 22:30:39 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c44503$4b9215e0$c3a24a0c@unknown> From: "Michael D. Callahan" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 50 HP rotary engine? Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:29:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C444D9.61B8A7A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C444D9.61B8A7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [FlyRotary] 50 HP rotary engine? The Artic Cat engine was the = OMC, same as the Johnson outboard. The Freedom engine is the same OMC. = Moller bought the lisence from OMC, updated the liner coatings, etc... = They have been ready to start selling them any day now for the past 10 = yrs. Yeah right, just as soon as the airways are filled with average = Joes driving their $30,000 Sky Cars (another Moller fallacy). I'm sure = they'll open a Freedom engine dealership/service facility on top of = every building with a roof strong enough to land on. I wouldn't believe = Moller if he said the sky was blue. The only currently available rotary of the correct size and output = for an Airbike is the Wankel GMBH. It is VERY expensive. The only other = option would be a Suzuki RE5 engine, which would be an unwise choice as = internal parts are not available (and never were), and the difficulty of = adapting it to an aircraft powerplant application. Good luck finding a = running one, too. Much as I hate to say it, you will probably be better off with a = more common UL motor for this one. I hate the thought of a two stroke in = an airplane, but it's about the only choice unless you want a half-VW, = which in my opinion is even worse. Maybe a small 2 cyl motorcycle engine = (Honda or Suzuki 450)? I saw a 3/4 scale Nieuport about 10 years ago at = Frank Ryder's Aerodrome WWI Flyin that had a 750cc Yamaha Virago engine = in it. He just stuck it in 2nd gear and made a prop adapter to fit on = the shaft drive hub. Sounds crazy, but it worked well and may still be = flying. Mike C. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bartrim, Todd=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 50 HP rotary engine? Hi Rusty;=20 Have you looked at Freedom motors? They've been around for = awhile now but I don't know if they are actually producing any motors = yet. Last year they were claiming to be about to begin selling them. = Don't know if they actually have. Prices are $5000 and $7000. IIRC the = output was something like 75hp & 150hp. They are related to the Moller = Skycar, so I don't know what that does for their credibility? At least they are a modern engine and parts availability = shouldn't be an issue if the company succeeds.=20 On the other end of the scale... Back in the early 70's when = over a hundred manufactures built a snowmobile (Harley, Avon, to name a = few, hmmm I wonder if Tupperware got into it?:-), there were a few with = rotary engines in the 35-45hp range. Arctic Cat was probably the most = successful of these. I did a search and found a link to one on e-bay but = the link was dead. It may be fun to play with one of these but you'd = better be good at making parts on that mill of yours! Not too sure I'd = like to fly behind one. S. Todd Bartrim=20 Turbo 13B=20 RX-9endurance=20 C-FSTB=20 http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm=20 "Imagination is more important than knowledge"=20 -Albert Einstein=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C444D9.61B8A7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [FlyRotary] 50 HP rotary engine?
    The Artic Cat engine was the OMC, = same as=20 the Johnson outboard. The Freedom engine is the same OMC. Moller = bought the=20 lisence from OMC, updated the liner coatings, etc... They have been = ready to=20 start selling them any day now for the past 10 yrs. Yeah = right, just=20 as soon as the airways are filled with average Joes driving their = $30,000 Sky=20 Cars (another Moller fallacy). I'm sure they'll open a Freedom engine=20 dealership/service facility on top of every building with a roof strong = enough=20 to land on.  I wouldn't believe Moller if he said the sky was=20 blue.
    The only currently available = rotary of the=20 correct size and output for an Airbike is the Wankel GMBH. It is VERY = expensive.=20 The only other option would be a Suzuki RE5 engine, which would be = an=20 unwise choice as internal parts are not available (and never were), and = the=20 difficulty of adapting it to an aircraft powerplant application. Good = luck=20 finding a running one, too.
    Much as I hate to say it, you = will probably=20 be better off with a more common UL motor for this one. I hate the = thought of a=20 two stroke in an airplane, but it's about the only choice unless you = want a=20 half-VW, which in my opinion is even worse. Maybe a small 2 cyl = motorcycle=20 engine (Honda or Suzuki 450)? I saw a 3/4 scale Nieuport about 10 years = ago at=20 Frank Ryder's Aerodrome WWI Flyin that had a 750cc Yamaha Virago engine = in it.=20 He just stuck it in 2nd gear and made a prop adapter to fit on the shaft = drive=20 hub. Sounds crazy, but it worked well and may still be flying.  = Mike=20 C.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bartrim, Todd
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 = 10:50 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 50 HP = rotary=20 engine?

Hi = Rusty;
        Have you looked at Freedom motors? They've been around for = awhile now=20 but I don't know if they are actually producing any motors yet. Last = year they=20 were claiming to be about to begin selling them. Don't know if they = actually=20 have. Prices are $5000 and $7000.  IIRC the output was something = like=20 75hp & 150hp. They are related to the Moller Skycar, so I don't = know what=20 that does for their credibility?

        At least they are a modern engine and parts = availability=20 shouldn't be an issue if the company succeeds.
        On the other end of the scale... Back in the early 70's when = over a=20 hundred manufactures built a snowmobile (Harley, Avon, to name a few, = hmmm I=20 wonder if Tupperware got into it?:-), there were a few with rotary = engines in=20 the 35-45hp range. Arctic Cat was probably the most successful of = these. I did=20 a search and found a link to one on e-bay but the link was dead. It = may be fun=20 to play with one of these but you'd better be good at making parts on = that=20 mill of yours! Not too sure I'd like to fly behind = one.

S. Todd = Bartrim=20
Turbo = 13B
RX-9endurance =
C-FSTB =
http://www3.telus.= net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm=20

        "Imagination is more important than = knowledge"=20
       =20        =20        =20        =20         -Albert=20 Einstein


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