Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b2) with ESMTP id 3196881 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:55:14 -0400 Received: from user-33qt44b.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.144.139] helo=Carol) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BJB4D-0000xk-00 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:55:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c42de9$21109020$0000a398@Carol> From: "sqpilot@earthlink" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: ECU wiring Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:54:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C42DBF.36293450" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2739.300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C42DBF.36293450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:12 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: ECU wiring I'll take a stab at your questions, Paul. Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "sqpilot@earthlink" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] ECU wiring > Hi, fellow rotary enthusiasts. My 13b is running pretty well with = my Micro > Tech ECU. I keep thinking that even though it's running OK, I might = have > something wired incorrectly, or that could be improved upon. I know = that > most of you are using Tracy's ECU, but since they both accomplish = the same > task, I thought I could ask a couple of questions to compare my = system to > Tracy's. > The wiring schematic shows a red wire going from the positive = side of > the battery, through a 30 amp fuse, and to one side of the = injectors. That > would put power to the injectors at all times, even if the ignition = switch > is in the OFF position. I understand that the injectors, however = will not > fire until the ECU sends a ground signal to the other wire on the = injector. > Is this common practice? Does Tracy's system work in a similar = manner? The two fuel injection systems I have employed (HALTECH and Tracy's = EC2) both have power directly to the inejctors. The injectors should = not activate or consume any power unless the ECU is operating - that is = grounding one of the leads to each injector. I do have a 30 amp circuit = breaker in my injector power line I personally would not want that line going through my ignition = switch. There is pulsating voltage on that line when the injectors are = firing and running that wire around under your instrument panel could = increase the chances for electronic interference. Too many circuits = tied to the ignition switch is something I would also avoid. > The schematic shows the red wires that go to the 4 Bosch coils = goes > through the ignition switch first. That made sense to me. That sounds reasonable to me as well. Although in my case, the = power to my Mazda coils also goes through a CB and not through the = ignition switch. Basically, my ignition switch does one thing , it = enables the starter button. My power to my Ec2 is controlled by a = toggle switch which also provides power to my starter contactor - so = both my keyed ignition switch (actually starter enable switch) and my = EC2 toggle must be on for the engine to be started by pushing a starter = button. A safety feature that makes three actions necessary to engage = the starter and start the engine and unlikely all three would accidently = be turned on. Key switch on - enables starter button Toggle Swith on - power to EC2 and starter contactor Starter Button that causes starter contactor to close and provide = power to the starter. > I have a small terminal strip on the cold side of the firewall = that > gets it's power straight from the ignition switch, so I could easily = swap > the "constantly hot" wire that goes from the positive side of my = battery to > the injectors, disconnect it and attach it to the "ignition on" = power strip > so that the injectors only get power with the ignition switch in the = ON > position. > Not sure if this really matters....I wasn't so sure it would = be good > to have constant power going to the injectors from the battery. = However, > that's how the heavy starter wire is....Direct power to the starter = from the > positive side of the battery. If you put your injector power line on your ignition switch you have = probably more than doubled the current running through it, so make = certain the switch can handle it - I personally would not do it. Not = trusting any single switch (and I purchased the best I could find) all = of my critical systems have a power line to them that goes through a 30 = amp circuit breaker than is normally open - should a critical switch = fail, I can push in the CB bypassing those switches and insure continued = power to my critical circuits - I call it my "Live Man Switch" {:>). Did = I mention I was a bit Anal about redundancy?? > I sure would appreciate any and all opinions on this. It does = run OK > as is....I'm just wondering if there are any safety concerns, etc = about > leaving power to one side of the injectors even when the plane is = not being > used. I would think not. You have a fuse (I would have a CB but that's just = my personal bias) that should any injector wiring short to ground, it = should blow and prevent any further damage. Just consider the injectors = as coils of wire (which they are electrically) and then they are no = different that any other wire you might have power to continuously. > Thanks for everyone's attempt in clearing this up for me. = Paul > Conner, 13b powered SQ2000 in Mobile, AL >=20 Paul, there is one consideration that has occurred to me. How is the = Micro Tech EFI circuit triggered? When I used the HALTECH, you had to = have a trigger signal from the ignition system. I initially had mine = triggered off of my leading ignition coil. One day my engine died = (fortunately on the ground) and I found that the leading coil had died. = That puzzled me at first as I had the trailing coil which should have = kept things running, until I realized that when the leading coil died so = did my EFI trigger!!!! So no fuel was being injected! After that I rigged a switch so I could get a EFI triggering signal = off either coil. Tracy's EC2 uses the crank angle sensor which is about = as reliable as a spinning hunk of magnet and a stational pick up coil = can be and of course either of his Controllers will continue to trigger = both ignition units. Thats about all I can think of. Ed Anerson Hi, Ed....thanks so much for taking time to answer all of my = questions. I will stay with my present system where the injectors go = directly to the positive side of the battery thru a fuse, which will now = be switched to a circuit breaker. I have had a few instances in flying = military aircraft where the CB popped, and was successfully reset to = complete the mission. Hard to reset a fuse.=20 The MicroTech unit uses the crank angle sensor. Also, there is = one wire which connects to the terminal on the lead coil, that if no = spark is coming from the coil, it turns off the fuel pumps. However, = all 4 coils have this wire running from one coil to the second, to the = third, and then to the fourth, so if any one of the coils is = functioning, the fuel pump would still get signal to run. It is wonderful to have a forum such as this, where I can learn = from both the successes and failures of other experimenters, and save = both time and money. Thanks again for being such a major part of this, = Ed. Paul Conner >=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C42DBF.36293450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 = 10:12=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: ECU = wiring

I'll take a stab at = your questions,=20 Paul.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "sqpilot@earthlink" = <sqpilot@earthlink.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:25 = PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] ECU=20 wiring

> Hi, fellow rotary = enthusiasts.  My 13b=20 is running pretty well with my Micro
> Tech ECU.  I keep = thinking=20 that even though it's running OK, I might have
> something wired = incorrectly, or that could be improved upon. I know that
> most = of you=20 are using Tracy's ECU, but since they both accomplish the same
> = task, I=20 thought I could ask a couple of questions to compare my system = to
>=20 Tracy's.
>       The wiring schematic = shows a=20 red wire going from the positive side of
> the battery, through = a 30 amp=20 fuse, and to one side of the injectors. That
> would put power = to the=20 injectors at all times, even if the ignition switch
> is in the = OFF=20 position.  I understand that the injectors, however will = not
> fire=20 until the ECU sends a ground signal to the other wire on the = injector.
>=20 Is this common practice?  Does Tracy's system work in a similar=20 manner?
 
The two fuel = injection systems I=20 have employed (HALTECH and Tracy's EC2) both have power directly to = the=20 inejctors.  The injectors should not activate or consume any = power unless=20 the ECU is operating - that is grounding one of the leads to each=20 injector.  I do have a 30 amp circuit breaker in my injector = power=20 line
I personally would = not want that=20 line going through my ignition switch.  There is pulsating = voltage on=20 that line when the injectors are firing and running that wire around = under=20 your instrument panel could increase the chances for electronic=20 interference.  Too many circuits tied to the ignition switch is = something=20 I would also avoid.
 

> =       The=20 schematic shows the red wires that go to the 4 Bosch coils = goes
>=20 through the ignition switch first. That made sense to me.
 
That sounds = reasonable to me as=20 well.   Although in my case, the  power to my = Mazda=20 coils also goes through a CB and not through the ignition switch. = Basically,=20 my ignition switch does one thing , it enables the starter = button.  My=20 power to my Ec2 is controlled by a toggle switch which = also provides=20 power to my starter contactor - so both my keyed ignition switch=20 (actually starter enable switch) and my EC2 toggle must be on for the = engine=20 to be started by pushing a starter button.  A safety feature that = makes=20 three actions necessary to engage the starter and start the engine and = unlikely all three would accidently be turned on.
 
Key switch on -=20 enables starter button
Toggle Swith on - = power to EC2 and=20 starter contactor
Starter Button that=20 causes starter contactor to close and provide power to the=20 starter.
 
 

>      I have a small terminal strip = on the cold=20 side of the firewall that
> gets it's power straight from the = ignition=20 switch, so I could easily swap
> the "constantly hot" wire that = goes=20 from the positive side of my battery to
> the injectors, = disconnect it=20 and attach it to the "ignition on" power strip
> so that the = injectors=20 only get power with the ignition switch in the ON
> = position.
>=20       Not sure if this really matters....I = wasn't so=20 sure it would be good
> to have constant power going to the = injectors=20 from the battery.  However,
> that's how the heavy starter = wire=20 is....Direct power to the starter from the
> positive side of = the=20 battery.
 
If you put your = injector power line=20 on your ignition switch you have probably more than doubled the = current=20 running through it, so make certain the switch can handle it - I = personally=20 would not do it.  Not trusting any single switch (and I purchased = the=20 best I could find) all of my critical systems have a power line to = them that=20 goes through a 30 amp circuit breaker than is normally open - should a = critical switch fail, I can push in the CB bypassing those switches = and insure=20 continued power to my critical circuits - I call it my "Live Man = Switch"=20 {:>). Did I mention I was a bit Anal about = redundancy??
 

> =       I sure=20 would appreciate any and all opinions on this.  It does run = OK
> as=20 is....I'm just wondering if there are any safety concerns, etc = about
>=20 leaving power to one side of the injectors even when the plane is not=20 being
> used.
I would think = not.  You have a=20 fuse (I would have a CB but that's just my personal bias) that should = any=20 injector wiring short to ground, it should blow and prevent any = further=20 damage.  Just consider the injectors as coils of wire (which they = are=20 electrically) and then they are no different that any other wire you = might=20 have power to continuously.
 

>=20       Thanks for everyone's attempt in = clearing this=20 up for me.  Paul
> Conner, 13b powered SQ2000 in Mobile, = AL
>=20
Paul, there is one consideration that has = occurred to=20 me.  How is the Micro Tech EFI circuit triggered?  When I = used the=20 HALTECH, you had to have a trigger signal from the ignition = system.  I=20 initially had mine triggered off of my leading ignition coil.  = One day my=20 engine died (fortunately on the ground)  and I found that the = leading=20 coil had died.  That puzzled me at first as I had the trailing = coil which=20 should have kept things running, until I realized that when the = leading coil=20 died so did my EFI trigger!!!! So no fuel was being=20 injected!
 
After that I rigged a = switch so I=20 could get a EFI triggering signal off either coil.  Tracy's EC2 = uses the=20 crank angle sensor which is about as reliable as a spinning hunk of = magnet and=20 a stational pick up coil can be and of course either of his = Controllers will=20 continue to trigger both ignition units.
 
Thats about all I can = think=20 of.
 
Ed = Anerson
 
Hi, Ed....thanks so much for taking = time to=20 answer all of my questions.  I will stay with my present = system=20 where the injectors go directly to the positive side of the battery = thru a=20 fuse, which will now be switched to a circuit breaker.  I have = had a few=20 instances in flying military aircraft where the CB popped, and was=20 successfully reset to complete the mission.  Hard to reset a = fuse.=20
 
     The = MicroTech unit uses=20 the crank angle sensor.  Also, there is one wire which connects = to the=20 terminal on the lead coil, that if no spark is coming from the coil, = it turns=20 off the fuel pumps.  However, all 4 coils have this wire running = from one=20 coil to the second, to the third, and then to the fourth, so if any = one of the=20 coils is functioning, the fuel pump would still get signal to=20 run.
 
      It is = wonderful to=20 have a forum such as this, where I can learn from both the successes = and=20 failures of other experimenters, and save both time and money. Thanks = again=20 for being such a major part of this, Ed.     Paul=20 Conner

>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>=20 >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html>
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