X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au" Received: from pmg.Logan.com ([207.170.160.161] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 3708417 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 21:00:13 -0500 Received: from pmg.Logan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C93531E742 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 21:00:12 -0500 (EST) Received-SPF: none (martinag.com.au: No applicable sender policy available) receiver=pmg.Logan.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="andrew@martinag.com.au"; helo=mail-yb1-f176.google.com; client-ip=209.85.219.176 Received: from mail-yb1-f176.google.com (mail-yb1-f176.google.com [209.85.219.176]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 21:00:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yb1-f176.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e38df4166c7so2577872276.0 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:00:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1732327205; x=1732932005; darn=lancaironline.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9w6RmVZrHu6Zc9OKp84CINzsn4g+aTteuXWaZaiAVgc=; b=yzWHhZCKDqT9Aq9gJvXrpBNy5eQlH/FNXtCYOLMRhX/uBi6B8G+g1rgoON5vjVIbk1 ZKPpwYi/nh3HFmiJo7gnTVAJ3w+xpn5oi+rvRvGBEpt+/faZTy2yolCEheuI74RlYld9 kdcZ4BxCXKVnD56r1V7JPfNwEnkGWVZsDhwyNufbKxfsfUxVe+ciBWoKxVveVuSmv2Bf UW6DgWudqlDqv2H90gRD2w+mIZMFTClmV2QRguCnOl16pe3l6ULl5sXWW5i6+kWmA6LJ 2lW330JduJcE2KPUJnAWVR8ni8oiY+MxT9NRW+2jV6QUR37wTe1/Qo2ihmqIf0DtXR3Z ycWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1732327205; x=1732932005; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9w6RmVZrHu6Zc9OKp84CINzsn4g+aTteuXWaZaiAVgc=; b=MBFqlYZ0m7FCZQtmbp2jb98wVjLtX2Xmt23wRqRpeDmCU386TCcBOXtLS3sXe1GnpY P398Vya0XzXngtrp5ftqxGm5CKNdAHld5D9meRSGwsPVD5z3i9Hlt/NL5ZnneFyC2I+y e69EyYlph4LR5KwR5eiHgGlxLXsryFzimypatoIYlf7C3Oar3SdRCniQfv/ACO5wVGc0 nct7EA1HI4ptnFUHCTqm7QusdgwZAGWb4DIoVZx8+JPjaux6AF1pkfvLVrpeLmEwDNlW fr8yCRU6cNZ2r/pl404XCkaaDXTP1yVEYybd2ma6XWF2F1n8D4/euGtmCkxnuo5hh4yr tsjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzpWDWTHDZ1hiNWU5UJl0t+pNBf6ZY+OD1vGof2Zvnf2A5kKbBp wXr3UbcHVLuXrRkbINkJSfwy0evWiTw0Ri4CeJkcC/98O0hdOA3TMNIzQlBRaN11wtZOU7phV43 92QSVLSyYDgQmh3SiRFRK8MJ+ibg2T+clzx+ZxloM7/pI5Uo= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvyVjD72JoyW5AR3YaF6p4taMC1ambNLSKbycl6BdfhqMBLY2ujptEwIKLH1Ln TY+kZ4aVodS2QrkYfnV+9PMFIXl4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEyTgriy0L4FekvbSOu5oCzTjK3kve2T0wO6v1RGENaR1jJPLtWXO9uNFAGGJsFdycP9IVsBqH8rF0WSX/V4Ms= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:2085:b0:5eb:fc8c:4669 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5f06a6fdfa9mr4896509eaf.0.1732325484083; Fri, 22 Nov 2024 17:31:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 09:31:10 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Oil Pressure in Renesis To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001d6d2b06278a7534" X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL 0.250 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DMARC_MISSING 0.1 Missing DMARC policy HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to DNSWL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#DnsBlocklists-dnsbl-block for more information. RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 -0.001 Average reputation (+2) RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_NONE 0.001 SPF: sender does not publish an SPF Record --0000000000001d6d2b06278a7534 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve. I'd guess the restriction maybe from your oil filter AN10 hose combo. The pressures we are working with in the mazda are really low compared to normal hydraulics so It's really easy to restrict flow if hose size is too small or slightly kinked. I'll check mine later but I think AN12 is the min size to use. The OEM filter can be small as it only has to filter oil going to your rotors/bearings, most of the oil pumped goes straight back to sump unfiltered after cooling. Your system is filtering all the pumped oil so filter must be much larger to cope. These restrictions can be great enough for you to see the low pressure at your sender. Fix the cause of your restriction rather than change relief valve pressures. Andrew On Fri, 22 Nov 2024, 20:05 Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com, < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi people. > > Thanks Andrew, you were on the money with me needing to measure the syste= m > pressures. > > I=E2=80=99d appreciate any reflections on data others have collected. > Do these numbers for pressure drop across cooler and filter look OK? > > I was concerned about the 50 psi pressure reading on the EFIS but I=E2=80= =99m now > thinking that the sensor position is not accurately reading oil pressure > that is getting to the bearings etc. > I=E2=80=99m thinking perhaps the bearings are seeing closer to perhaps 65= -70 psi > given the smaller channel to the relief valve and pressure sender locatio= n. > See drawing attached. > I=E2=80=99m considering pulling the sump off and installing an FD relief = valve > (higher cracking pressure) and shimming the Pump Control Valve to provide > more oil to all systems. > The current relief valve appears to be opening by just above 50 psi. > > This is a Renesis Series 1 4 Port - Front Cover out via AN-10 lines to > Mocal 44 Row Cooler, then into remote K&N1002 Filter before into Oil > pedestal. > I fabricated an aluminium block over the two gallery holes. The AN-10 lin= e > from the Filter enters directly over the gallery to the Eccentric etc and > the smaller 1/8npt feed to the RD1C gearbox directly above the channel > going straight down to the rear relief valve. > The two holes/channels are linked by a milled tunnel which from memory is > smaller than the Channels themselves. > > My EFIS measures Oil Pressure at the 1/8 npt port below the pedestal and > read about 58psi during the tests below, only rising a few psi as rpm > increases to 4000. > Once temps get to 90-100C the EFIS pressure drops to about 50psi. > > > Ground Test Oil Pressure (psi) / Temps (Celsius) > > > > *Pres/Temp RPM 2100 3000 4000* > > Oil Out (front Cover) 75 / 66 85 / 67 90 /69 > > Post Cooler 70 / 65 78 / 66 80 / 69 > > Post Filter 68 / 65 72 / 66 75 / 69 > > EFIS (below pedestal) 58 / 65 59 / 66 60 / 69 > > > > *Pres Drop RPM 2100 3000 4000* > > Oil Cooler 5 / 65 7 / 67 10 / 69 > > Oil Filter 2 / 65 4 / 66 5 / 69 > > > --0000000000001d6d2b06278a7534 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve.=C2=A0
I'd guess th= e restriction maybe from your oil filter AN10 hose combo. The pressures we = are working with in the mazda are really low compared to normal hydraulics = so It's really easy to restrict flow if hose size is too small or sligh= tly kinked. I'll check mine later but I think AN12 is the min size to u= se.

The OEM filter can b= e small as it only has to filter oil going to your rotors/bearings, most of= the oil pumped goes straight back to sump unfiltered after cooling. Your s= ystem is filtering all the pumped oil so filter must be much larger to cope= . These restrictions can be great enough for you to see the low pressure at= your sender. Fix the cause of your restriction rather than change relief v= alve pressures.
Andrew

On Fri, 22 Nov 2024= , 20:05 Stephen Izett stephen.iz= ett@gmail.com, <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi people.

Thanks Andrew, you were on the money with me needing to measure the syste= m pressures.

I=E2=80=99d appreciate any reflection= s on data others have collected.
Do these numbers for pressure dr= op across cooler and filter look OK?

I was concern= ed about the 50 psi pressure reading on the EFIS but I=E2=80=99m now thinki= ng that the sensor position is not accurately reading oil pressure that is = getting to the bearings etc.
I=E2=80=99m thinking perhaps the bea= rings are seeing closer to perhaps 65-70 psi given the smaller channel to t= he relief valve and pressure sender location.
See drawing attache= d.
I=E2=80=99m considering pulling the sump off and installing an= FD relief valve (higher cracking pressure) and shimming the Pump Control V= alve to provide more oil to all systems.
The current relief valve= appears to be opening by just above 50 psi.

This = is a Renesis Series 1 4 Port - Front Cover out via AN-10 lines to Mocal 44 = Row Cooler, then into remote K&N1002 Filter before into Oil pedestal.= =C2=A0
I fabricated an aluminium block over the two gallery holes= . The AN-10 line from the Filter enters directly over the gallery to the Ec= centric etc and the smaller 1/8npt feed to the RD1C gearbox directly above = the channel going straight down to the rear relief valve.
The two= holes/channels are linked by a milled tunnel which from memory is smaller = than the Channels themselves.

My EFIS measures Oil= Pressure at the 1/8 npt port below the pedestal and read about 58psi durin= g the tests below, only rising a few psi as rpm increases to 4000.
Once temps get to 90-100C the EFIS pressure drops to about 50psi.


Ground Test Oil Pressure (psi) =C2=A0/ Temps (Celsius)

=C2= =A0

Pres/Temp RPM 2100 3000 4000

Oil Out (front Cover)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 75 / 66 85 / 67 90 /69<= /u>

Post Cooler=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 70 / 65 = 78 / 66 80 / 69

Post Filter=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 68 / 65 72 / 66 75 / 69

EFIS (below pedestal) = =C2=A058 / 65 =C2=A0 59 / 66 =C2=A0 =C2=A060 / 69

=C2=A0<= /span>

Pres Drop RPM 2100 3000 4000

Oil Cooler 5 / 65<= span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"> 7 / 67 10 / 69=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

Oil Fil= ter 2 / 65 4 / 66 5 / 69


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