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From: "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: Ed's spreadsheet
Message-Id: <E75205C7-72F6-4628-85A9-3C1A1B8D6699@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:00:25 +0200
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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=EF=BB=BF
=EF=BB=BF
Finn : I am still building my engine and FFW set-up ,
but this is the fundamentals on coolant flo ,that i got on cooling a 2 Rota=
ry 13 B ,
think that many of these principles is the same on other models too like the=
Renesis=20
The coolant - 50% ethylene glycol and 50% water.
The flo must be 35 - 40 gallons per minute through the system at more or les=
s 6000 rpm.
The averaged pump on these flowrates need more or less 3 Hp
The pump can =E2=80=9Ccavitate=E2=80=9D and loose efficiency if there is too=
much friction in the system , and the flo rate is to slow.
This cooling is based on a heat exhancher (radiator) of 600 cube inch.
I think that the basics is to start with bigger cooling hoses. 40 mm
Try to keep them as straight as possible and avoid bends to the minnimum.
Then the airflo and distribution and heat exhange is a topic on its own.
Included are data and work by Fred Moreno (revised oct 21 1999)
What is interesting in Fred=E2=80=99s work is that a 10 gph increase in cool=
ant flow reduced cooling drag by 15 %
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JVh3KTa0LyiKQLKmaR4pRpDnLuuA_y17/view?usp=3D=
drivesdk
Sent from my iPhone
Le Roux Breytenbach=20
>> On 27 Feb 2022, at 18:20, eanderson@carolina.rr.com <flyrotary@lancaironl=
ine.net> wrote:
> =EF=BB=BF
> Well Looking at the chart you referernced it looks like the mixture for 50=
/50 the CP could range from 0.79 at -30F to 0.88 at 100F. IF 100 % glyco th=
en at -10F we have a CP of 0.53 and at 100 0f 0.66. So looks like I picked a=
worst/best case condition. But, using your example I get a cp of 0.8807. N=
ot a 30% difference but more than 5%
>=20
> In any case, I would suggest if you find data you feel more confident in,=
do not hesitate to subsitute it.
>=20
> Ed
> pecific Heat of Ethylene Glycol based Water Solutions
> Specific Heat - cp - of ethylene glycol based water solutions at various t=
emperatures are indicated below
>=20
> Specific Heat - cp (Btu/lb oF)=20
> Ethylene Glycol Solution
> (% by weight) Temperature (=C2=B0C)=20
> -50 -40 -30 -20 -10 0 10 20 30 40=
50 60 70 80 90 100
> 0 1.0038 1.0018 1.0004 0.9=
9943 0.99902 0.99913 0.99978 1.0009 1.0026 1.0=
049 1.0076
> 10 0.97236 0.97422=
0.97619 0.97827 0.98047 0.98279 0.98521=
0.98776 0.99041 0.99318 0.99607
> 20 0.93576 0.93976=
0.94375 0.94775 0.95175 0.95574 0.95974=
0.96373 0.96773 0.97173 0.97572
> 30 0.89373 0.89889 0.9=
0405 0.90920 0.91436 0.91951 0.92467 0.9=
2982 0.93498 0.94013 0.94529 0.95044
> 40 0.84605 0.85232 0.85858=
0.86484 0.87111 0.87737 0.88364 0.88990=
0.89616 0.90243 0.90869 0.91496 0.92122
> 50 0.79288 0.80021 0.80753 0.8=
1485 0.82217 0.82949 0.83682 0.84414 0.8=
5146 0.85878 0.86610 0.87343 0.88075 0.8=
8807
> 60 0.72603 0.73436 0.74269 0.75102 0.7=
5935 0.76768 0.77601 0.78434 0.79267 0.8=
0100 0.80933 0.81766 0.82599 0.83431 0.8=
4264 0.85097
> 70 0.67064 0.67992 0.68921 0.69850 0.7=
0778 0.71707 0.72636 0.73564 0.74493 0.7=
5422 0.76350 0.77279 0.78207 0.79136 0.8=
0065 0.80993
> 80 0.61208 0.62227 0.63246 0.64265 0.6=
5285 0.66304 0.67323 0.68343 0.69362 0.7=
0381 0.71401 0.72420 0.73439 0.74458 0.7=
5478 0.76497
> 90 0.58347 0.59452 0.60557=
0.61662 0.62767 0.63872 0.64977 0.66082=
0.67186 0.68291 0.69396 0.70501 0.71606
> 100 0.53282 0.54467 0.5=
5652 0.56838 0.58023 0.59209 0.60394 0.6=
1579 0.62765 0.63950 0.65136 0.66321
> I'm not sure how
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: 2/26/2022 9:29:22 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet
>=20
>> =46rom your 24 Aug 2012 post about cooling section in the spreadsheet:
>> "Cooling mass flow is dependent on:
>> 1. A 0.7 cp compared to pure water of 1.0 Cp - this compensates for the t=
ypical anitfreeze dilution of the specific heat of water. "
>>=20
>> Roughly weighing a 1 Gal 50/50 antifreeze jug I get maybe 7.9 pounds afte=
r subtracting 0.3 pound for the jug). Pure water about 8.3 pounds. That's ab=
out 5%.=20
>> I realize it changes somewhat with temperature but nowhere near 30% ?
>>=20
>> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html
>>=20
>> Difference between water and 50/50 at 100C: 1000/1030 or 3%. Not 30%.
>>=20
>> Difference in specific heat (whatever that is): 1.0079 / 0.88807 =3D 13% (=
for 50/50 at 100C).
>>=20
>> What am I missing?
>>=20
>> Finn
>>=20
>>> On 2/26/2022 10:48 AM, eanderson@carolina.rr.com wrote:
>>>=20
>>> I agree, must have got it from someplace credible - like Bill Shertz.
>>> CP was 1.0 for pure H20 and somewhat less with antifreeze mixed in.
>>> I had a primary pully from MazdaTrix that reduced water pump speed - sin=
ce engine was turning faster than normal in automobile, did not want to have=
any cavitation. So my water pump did turn a bit slower than stock.
>>> Not necessarily - note that water flow drops off if pump speed increases=
into the "caviation range"
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net=
>
>>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>> Sent: 2/25/2022 10:39:43 AM
>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet
>>>=20
>>>> Thanks Ed.
>>>>=20
>>>> But 185.85 seems pretty detailed for a SWAG.
>>>> Any chance you got it from Bill Shertz's tests (which I unfortunately c=
an't find the posts about)?
>>>>=20
>>>> What determines "Cp Coolant"?
>>>> Heat transfer efficiency from engine to water and water to rad?
>>>>=20
>>>> =46rom measuring the rims of the e-shaft pulley (122mm) and water pump p=
ulley (112mm) it looks like the Renesis water pump runs a bit slower (factor=
1.09 compared to your 1.18).
>>>>=20
>>>> Should water flow be directly proportional to water pump RPM?
>>>>=20
>>>> Finn
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2/25/2022 10:07 AM, eanderson@carolina.rr.com wrote:
>>>>> Sorry, Finn.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Too much water under the bridge, pretty sure I did not make it up out o=
f thin air. I suspect I visited some pump websites to arrive at a SWAG.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>=20
>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>> From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.n=
et>
>>>>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>>>> Sent: 2/24/2022 2:25:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Ed's spreadsheet
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Ed,
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =46rom where did you get the 13B coolant flow numbers (Pump Factor)?
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> I want to be certain that I have adequate coolant flow.
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Finn
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> ---
>>>>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D=
"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">=
<div><br></div><div>Finn : I am still building my engine and FFW set-up ,</d=
iv><div> but this is the fundamentals on coolant flo ,that i got on coo=
ling a 2 Rotary 13 B ,</div><div>think that many of these principles is the s=
ame on other models too like the Renesis </div><div>The coolant - 50% e=
thylene glycol and 50% water.</div><div>The flo must be 35 - 40 gallons per m=
inute through the system at more or less 6000 rpm.</div><div>The averaged pu=
mp on these flowrates need more or less 3 Hp</div><div>The pump can =E2=80=9C=
cavitate=E2=80=9D and loose efficiency if there is too much friction in the s=
ystem , and the flo rate is to slow.</div><div>This cooling is based on a he=
at exhancher (radiator) of 600 cube inch.</div><div>I think that the basics i=
s to start with bigger cooling hoses. 40 mm</div><div>Try to keep them as st=
raight as possible and avoid bends to the minnimum.</div><div> Then the=
airflo and distribution and heat exhange is a topic on its own.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Included are data and work by Fred Moreno (revised oct 21 1999=
)</div><div>What is interesting in Fred=E2=80=99s work is that a 10 gph incr=
ease in coolant flow reduced cooling drag by 15 %</div><div><br></div><div><=
a href=3D"https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JVh3KTa0LyiKQLKmaR4pRpDnLuuA_y17/=
view?usp=3Ddrivesdk">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JVh3KTa0LyiKQLKmaR4pRp=
DnLuuA_y17/view?usp=3Ddrivesdk</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><=
br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone<div>Le Roux Breytenbach </d=
iv></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 27 Feb 2022, at 1=
8:20, eanderson@carolina.rr.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<b=
r><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=
=20
=20
<div><h3 style=3D"margin-top: 0.3em; margin-bottom: 0.4em; font-size: 1.1e=
m; font-family: "bitstream vera sans", sans-serif;"><span style=3D=
"font-weight: normal;">Well Looking at the chart you referernced it looks li=
ke the mixture for 50/50 the CP could range from 0.79 at -30F to 0.88 at 100=
F. IF 100 % glyco then at -10F we have a CP of 0.53 and at 100 0f 0.66=
. So looks like I picked a worst/best case condition. But, using=
your example I get a cp of 0.8807. Not a 30% difference but more than=
5%</span></h3><div><span><br></span></div><div>I<font size=3D"4" style=3D"f=
ont-size: 14pt;">n any case, I would suggest if you find data you feel =
more confident in, do not hesitate to subsitute it.</font></div><div><span>=
<font size=3D"4" style=3D"font-size: 14pt;"><br></font></span></div><div><sp=
an><font size=3D"4" style=3D"font-size: 14pt;">Ed</font></span></div><h3 sty=
le=3D"margin-top: 0.3em; margin-bottom: 0.4em; font-size: 1.1em; font-family=
: "bitstream vera sans", sans-serif;">pecific Heat of Ethylene Gly=
col based Water Solutions</h3><p style=3D"margin-top: 0em; font-family: &quo=
t;bitstream vera sans", sans-serif; font-size: 14.4px;"><a href=3D"http=
s://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-capacity-d_338.html" title=3D"Specific h=
eat" style=3D"text-decoration-line: none;">Specific Heat</a> - <i>=
c<sub>p</sub></i> - of <a href=3D"https://www.engineeringtoolbox.c=
om/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html" title=3D"Ethylene glycol freeze protection" s=
tyle=3D"text-decoration-line: none;">ethylene glycol</a> based water so=
lutions at various temperatures are indicated below</p><table style=3D"font-=
size: 0.8em; margin: 15px auto 10px; border: 2px solid rgb(192, 192, 192); f=
ont-family: "bitstream vera sans", sans-serif;"><thead style=3D"ba=
ckground:#FFC;"><tr><th colspan=3D"17" style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;pad=
ding:2px;">Specific Heat - <em>c<sub>p</sub> </em><i>(Btu/lb =
<sup>o</sup>F)</i> <em><input class=3D"addKjkgc" value=3D"[kJ/(kg =C2=B0=
C)]" type=3D"button" style=3D"font-style:italic;font-size:0.8em;color:blue;c=
ursor:pointer;"></em></th></tr><tr><th rowspan=3D"2" style=3D"border:1px sol=
id #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">Ethylene Glycol Solution<br><i>(% by weight)</i></t=
h><th colspan=3D"16" style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">Tempera=
ture <em>(=C2=B0C)</em> <input class=3D"addFahrenheit" value=3D"(d=
eg F)" type=3D"button" style=3D"font-size:0.8em;font-style:italic;color:blue=
;cursor:pointer;"></th></tr><tr><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"border:1px so=
lid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">-50</th><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">-40</th><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"border:1px=
solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">-30</th><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"border:1=
px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">-20</th><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"border=
:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">-10</th><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"bord=
er:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">0</th><th class=3D"celsius" style=3D"bord=
er:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">10</th><th class=3D"smallHide" style=3D"b=
order:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">20</th><th class=3D"smallHide" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">30</th><th class=3D"smallHide" style=
=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">40</th><th class=3D"smallHide" st=
yle=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">50</th><th class=3D"smallHide"=
style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">60</th><th class=3D"smallHi=
de" style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">70</th><th class=3D"smal=
lHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">80</th><th class=3D"s=
mallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">90</th><th class=3D=
"smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #C0C0C0;padding:2px;">100</th></tr></t=
head><tbody><tr><td style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:ce=
nter;"><strong>0</strong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid=
#CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"bor=
der:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf"=
style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td cla=
ss=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"=
></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-a=
lign:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddi=
ng:2px;text-align:center;">1.0038</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1=
px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">1.0018</td><td class=3D"btulbf=
smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">1=
.0004</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padd=
ing:2px;text-align:center;">0.99943</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=
=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.99902</td><td cl=
ass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-ali=
gn:center;">0.99913</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.99978</td><td class=3D"btulbf sm=
allHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">1.00=
09</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding=
:2px;text-align:center;">1.0026</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"=
border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">1.0049</td><td class=3D=
"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cen=
ter;">1.0076</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;tex=
t-align:center;"><strong>10</strong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"borde=
r:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" s=
tyle=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=
=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><=
/td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-ali=
gn:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding=
:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid=
#CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.97236</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=
=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.97422</td><td cl=
ass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-ali=
gn:center;">0.97619</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.97827</td><td class=3D"btulbf sm=
allHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.98=
047</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddin=
g:2px;text-align:center;">0.98279</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.98521</td><td class=
=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:=
center;">0.98776</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px soli=
d #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.99041</td><td class=3D"btulbf small=
Hide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.99318=
</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2=
px;text-align:center;">0.99607</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"border:1px solid #C=
CC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>20</strong></td><td class=3D"btul=
bf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td c=
lass=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center=
;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text=
-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;pad=
ding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.93576</td><td class=
=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0=
.93976</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;pad=
ding:2px;text-align:center;">0.94375</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" styl=
e=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.94775</td><td c=
lass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-al=
ign:center;">0.95175</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.95574</td><td class=3D"btulbf sm=
allHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.95=
974</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddin=
g:2px;text-align:center;">0.96373</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.96773</td><td class=
=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:=
center;">0.97173</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px soli=
d #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.97572</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"bor=
der:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>30</strong></td><=
td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:ce=
nter;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;=
text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC=
;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1=
px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" styl=
e=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.89373</td><td c=
lass=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center=
;">0.89889</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2=
px;text-align:center;">0.90405</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"b=
order:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.90920</td><td class=3D=
"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cen=
ter;">0.91436</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #=
CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.91951</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHid=
e" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.92467</t=
d><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;=
text-align:center;">0.92982</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"bord=
er:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.93498</td><td class=3D"b=
tulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cente=
r;">0.94013</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CC=
C;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.94529</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide"=
style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.95044</td>=
</tr><tr style=3D"background:#FFC;"><td style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddi=
ng:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>40</strong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" styl=
e=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D=
"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td=
><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:=
center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2p=
x;text-align:center;">0.84605</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.85232</td><td class=3D"btulbf" s=
tyle=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.85858</td><t=
d class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cen=
ter;">0.86484</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #=
CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.87111</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHid=
e" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.87737</t=
d><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;=
text-align:center;">0.88364</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"bord=
er:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.88990</td><td class=3D"b=
tulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cente=
r;">0.89616</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CC=
C;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.90243</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide"=
style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.90869</td>=
<td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;te=
xt-align:center;">0.91496</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border=
:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.92122</td></tr><tr><td sty=
le=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#=
ff0000" style=3D"">50</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px so=
lid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"=
border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btul=
bf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font col=
or=3D"#ff0000">0.79288</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.80021</f=
ont></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;tex=
t-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.80753</font></td><td class=3D"btu=
lbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font co=
lor=3D"#ff0000">0.81485</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.82217</f=
ont></td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddi=
ng:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.82949</font></td><td cl=
ass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-ali=
gn:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.83682</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf s=
mallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><fo=
nt color=3D"#ff0000">0.84414</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=
=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff=
0000">0.85146</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.85878</f=
ont></td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddi=
ng:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.86610</font></td><td cl=
ass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-ali=
gn:center;"><font color=3D"#ff0000">0.87343</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf s=
mallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><fo=
nt color=3D"#ff0000">0.88075</font></td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=
=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><font color=3D"#ff=
0000">0.88807</font></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding=
:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>60</strong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.72603</td><td class=
=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0=
.73436</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;t=
ext-align:center;">0.74269</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px soli=
d #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.75102</td><td class=3D"btulbf" styl=
e=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.75935</td><td c=
lass=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center=
;">0.76768</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2=
px;text-align:center;">0.77601</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"b=
order:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.78434</td><td class=3D=
"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cen=
ter;">0.79267</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #=
CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.80100</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHid=
e" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.80933</t=
d><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;=
text-align:center;">0.81766</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"bord=
er:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.82599</td><td class=3D"b=
tulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cente=
r;">0.83431</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CC=
C;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.84264</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide"=
style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.85097</td>=
</tr><tr><td style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">=
<strong>70</strong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;=
padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.67064</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"bo=
rder:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.67992</td><td class=3D=
"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.68=
921</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text=
-align:center;">0.69850</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #=
CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.70778</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.71707</td><td class=
=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0=
.72636</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;pad=
ding:2px;text-align:center;">0.73564</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" styl=
e=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.74493</td><td c=
lass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-al=
ign:center;">0.75422</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.76350</td><td class=3D"btulbf sm=
allHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.77=
279</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddin=
g:2px;text-align:center;">0.78207</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.79136</td><td class=
=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:=
center;">0.80065</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px soli=
d #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.80993</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"bor=
der:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>80</strong></td><=
td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:ce=
nter;">0.61208</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;paddi=
ng:2px;text-align:center;">0.62227</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:=
1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.63246</td><td class=3D"btul=
bf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.64265</=
td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-alig=
n:center;">0.65285</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;p=
adding:2px;text-align:center;">0.66304</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"bor=
der:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.67323</td><td class=3D"=
btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cent=
er;">0.68343</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #C=
CC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.69362</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide=
" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.70381</td=
><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;t=
ext-align:center;">0.71401</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"borde=
r:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.72420</td><td class=3D"bt=
ulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center=
;">0.73439</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC=
;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.74458</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" s=
tyle=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.75478</td><t=
d class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text=
-align:center;">0.76497</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padd=
ing:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>90</strong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" sty=
le=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D=
"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td=
><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:=
center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2p=
x;text-align:center;">0.58347</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.59452</td><td class=3D"btulbf" s=
tyle=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.60557</td><t=
d class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cen=
ter;">0.61662</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #=
CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.62767</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHid=
e" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.63872</t=
d><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;=
text-align:center;">0.64977</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"bord=
er:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.66082</td><td class=3D"b=
tulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:cente=
r;">0.67186</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CC=
C;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.68291</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide"=
style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.69396</td>=
<td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;te=
xt-align:center;">0.70501</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border=
:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.71606</td></tr><tr><td sty=
le=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"><strong>100</str=
ong></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;tex=
t-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;pa=
dding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D=
"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;"></td><td class=3D"btu=
lbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.53282<=
/td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-ali=
gn:center;">0.54467</td><td class=3D"btulbf" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;=
padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.55652</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" s=
tyle=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.56838</td><t=
d class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text=
-align:center;">0.58023</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1=
px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.59209</td><td class=3D"btulb=
f smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">=
0.60394</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;pa=
dding:2px;text-align:center;">0.61579</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" sty=
le=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.62765</td><td c=
lass=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-al=
ign:center;">0.63950</td><td class=3D"btulbf smallHide" style=3D"border:1px s=
olid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.65136</td><td class=3D"btulbf sm=
allHide" style=3D"border:1px solid #CCC;padding:2px;text-align:center;">0.66=
321</td></tr></tbody></table><ul style=3D"font-family: "bitstream vera s=
ans", sans-serif; font-size: 14.4px;"></ul></div>
<div>I'm not sure how</div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Finn Lassen <a href=3D"mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.net">finn.lass=
en@verizon.net</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">flyro=
tary@lancaironline.net</a>></div>
<div>To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <<a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancair=
online.net">flyrotary@lancaironline.net</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 2/26/2022 9:29:22 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet</div><div><br></div>
<div id=3D"x729d63677339414" style=3D"color: #000000"><blockquote cite=3D"li=
st-709983@logan.com" type=3D"cite" class=3D"cite2">
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">=46rom your 24 Aug 2012 post about
cooling section in the spreadsheet:<br>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">"Cooling mass flow is dependent on:</fo=
nt></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">1. A 0.7 cp compared to pure wate=
r of 1.0
Cp - this compensates for the typical anitfreeze dilution of
the specific heat of water. "<br>
<br>
Roughly weighing a 1 Gal 50/50 antifreeze jug I get maybe 7.9
pounds after subtracting 0.3 pound for the jug). Pure water
about 8.3 pounds. That's about 5%. <br>
I realize it changes somewhat with temperature but nowhere
near 30% ?<br>
<br>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.engineering=
toolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html">https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/e=
thylene-glycol-d_146.html</a><br>
<br>
Difference between water and 50/50 at 100C: 1000/1030 or 3%.
Not 30%.<br>
<br>
Difference in specific heat (whatever that is): 1.0079 /
0.88807 =3D 13% (for 50/50 at 100C).<br>
<br>
What am I missing?<br>
<br>
Finn<br>
</font></div>
<br>
On 2/26/2022 10:48 AM, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"m=
ailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com">eanderson@carolina.rr.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:list-709115@logan.com" class=3D"ci=
te">
=20
=20
=20
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree, must have got it from someplace credible - like Bill
Shertz.</div>
<div>CP was 1.0 for pure H20 and somewhat less with antifreeze
mixed in.</div>
<div>I had a primary pully from MazdaTrix that reduced water pump
speed - since engine was turning faster than normal in
automobile, did not want to have any cavitation. So my water
pump did turn a bit slower than stock.</div>
<div>Not necessarily - note that water flow drops off if pump
speed increases into the "caviation range"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Finn Lassen <a href=3D"mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.net" moz=
-do-not-send=3D"true">finn.lassen@verizon.net</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:fly=
rotary@lancaironline.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">flyrotary@lancaironline.n=
et</a>></div>
<div>To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <<a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@l=
ancaironline.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">flyrotary@lancaironline.net</a>&g=
t;</div>
<div>Sent: 2/25/2022 10:39:43 AM</div>
<div>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's spreadsheet</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"x9fd5946c04d4469" style=3D"color: #000000">
<blockquote cite=3D"list-706472@logan.com" type=3D"cite" class=3D"ci=
te2">
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Thanks Ed.<br>
<br>
But 185.85 seems pretty detailed for a SWAG.<br>
Any chance you got it from Bill Shertz's tests (which I
unfortunately can't find the posts about)?<br>
<br>
What determines "Cp Coolant"?<br>
Heat transfer efficiency from engine to water and water to
rad?<br>
<br>
=46rom measuring the rims of the e-shaft pulley (122mm) and
water pump pulley (112mm) it looks like the Renesis water
pump runs a bit slower (factor 1.09 compared to your 1.18).<br>
<br>
Should water flow be directly proportional to water pump
RPM?<br>
<br>
Finn<br>
<br>
On 2/25/2022 10:07 AM, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" hre=
f=3D"mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">eanderson@ca=
rolina.rr.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:list-706355@logan.com" class=
=3D"cite">
=20
<div>Sorry, Finn.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Too much water under the bridge, pretty sure I did not
make it up out of thin air. I suspect I visited so=
me
pump websites to arrive at a SWAG.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ed</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Finn Lassen <a href=3D"mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.ne=
t" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">finn.lassen@verizon.net</a>" <<a href=3D"mail=
to:flyrotary@lancaironline.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">flyrotary@lancairon=
line.net</a>></div>
<div>To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <<a href=3D"mailto:flyro=
tary@lancaironline.net" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">flyrotary@lancaironline.net=
</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 2/24/2022 2:25:56 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [FlyRotary] Ed's spreadsheet</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"x93d47c9a0934455" class=3D"plain">
<blockquote cite=3D"list-703740@logan.com" type=3D"cite" class=
=3D"cite2">
<div class=3D"plain_line">Hi Ed,</div>
<div class=3D"plain_line"> </div>
<div class=3D"plain_line">=46rom where did you get the 13B
coolant flow numbers (Pump Factor)?</div>
<div class=3D"plain_line"> </div>
<div class=3D"plain_line">I want to be certain that I have
adequate coolant flow.</div>
<div class=3D"plain_line"> </div>
<div class=3D"plain_line">Finn</div>
<div class=3D"plain_line"> </div>
<div class=3D"plain_line"> </div>
<div class=3D"plain_line">---</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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#41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial,
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ight=3D"1" moz-do-not-send=3D"true"> </a></div>
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<p><br>
</p>
</blockquote></div>
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