X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oo1-f43.google.com ([209.85.161.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 100918 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 15:08:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.43; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-oo1-f43.google.com with SMTP id 128-20020a4a11860000b029024b19a4d98eso4414588ooc.5 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 12:08:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language; bh=1iKYUeLJB6tTMYy8NKmfYQuJsapRrTJjVkrnop5/aYU=; b=Vschvv7mS/fLNsh12w7WhVzq6UoQSFqPQTjchaRWFnYv1PDd/VcK/WPc2dxqlzOsKK DeeFuA6Vlee2gvvdDN6aT5agCLdOHPe3pMjG1PmhFkULdDN/5id3kCaUR/gWBVz2zrpe E66usTmqRcVJ4IShyKEJhnUeAnNrema4dELGGzxe8Phej4ATqYmw05VspNemuPhUdBl5 xnJtSPJx1NsvHqzXN87Y4uDVY44CoNjDW6Z5FbLO9FpwKIsSRIinbWiIpSr9q+b6pkFh Wnn/e7JLjmlqHVhvh4LwVbKPIS+eY9T5593M/SEkMOZB3/IO6IHxBZarlL+8kjbdsYSs f/oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language; bh=1iKYUeLJB6tTMYy8NKmfYQuJsapRrTJjVkrnop5/aYU=; b=Um1912lu6aMygbKoEuN6+U3nFwWDSFFkIc+YNk22tezvGdE+0os5qaPrsUB3ejn72V CupkgmABE26un0qp34j9nxYO0pH4+TtAo8oJsYLN9AOeEC7Bxqbe4O+kdE7NVMDFv14Y AuLTodoiP+btUAS5NOMz7DsJdtczQTd5qmqzz8ci9C6xTougaVAQrPVwjPiUTwBugwWw osXDFSGmCT4uMkmQYgbQMhw7Z/xlpBIyfLLnITeVyo8lRMafTHiA6fwBG5OkPuR8m64r OjVgPpmgAHSp36Y0dGWwoGxe/pp5qEXuYiYZgCVWjhrnPRC+8O5sWmqclVr+VZzb8Zbz 1W8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531YiDRnkBxhaKudA891HcobIgcBOdwwaRcsjyU2w/b8wbkkuz6h ZwbQokjZl/z7YLDtD8jLL5T+qF/tVYE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzD8bz1KoSlTwRC/w9F+RNVr6uxCZjcZCd0u3QxOq8Iv4O+eTCsviWLL2dn/rb6e11rq+rTaA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:35a:: with SMTP id m26mr79013ooe.73.1624302488101; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 12:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:::1? ([2607:fb90:d058:5626:25ce:ed9c:674a:6dbd]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b20sm2199486otq.41.2021.06.21.12.08.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jun 2021 12:08:07 -0700 (PDT) To: flyrotary Subject: Warning: Electrical rant mode Message-ID: <9faef59e-c08e-df38-e782-b906b9f71508@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 14:11:48 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AAEAE14F9854678FA65F3AB6" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 210621-8, 06/21/2021), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AAEAE14F9854678FA65F3AB6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We don't talk a lot about electrical stuff here, but we probably should. A couple of months ago there was an on-airport engine-out crash landing of an LS V8 powered P51 replica in CA, and a subsequent discussion on the HBA forum with the non-builder, non-flying owner asking what could have gone wrong. He could offer almost no info about the way the plane was set up, but Eliot Seguin was doing what was supposed to be a simple flying off of the insurance company-dictated 5 hours flight time when the failure happened, and he justĀ  posted a long Youtube video on the flight and accident sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PHTVTw_Y2A I found the video very hard to watch due to the visual edit cuts every second or two, but the after-action analysis is worth the hour you'll spend watching. Guys, the builder of that a/c seemed to find every possible way to make the electrical system failure-prone. Seguin describes the elaborate steps they took prior to him flying the a/c to inspect the airframe, but they apparently totally ignored the electrical system. Because of that, the choices the builder made almost certainly caused the original gear issue, and then caused the total electrical failure that took out everything in the a/c, including the engine. _There is no justification for wiring an a/c the way this one was wired. _With most of us running automotive style engine control, electricity is obviously quite critical to engine operation. We really should do Failure Mode Effects Analysis on the whole plane, including the electrical system, but with electrically dependent engines, it's critical. Draw your schematic. Look at *every single wire*. Pretend that it got broken, and ask what happens, and then ask what plan you have in place to work around it. Then short it to ground, and ask the same questions. (You can get very different effects.) Move to the next wire, and do it again. Rinse; repeat. Then fail each component and ask the questions. Don't let any one electrical issue cause the engine to stop, or cause more than momentary distraction from normal flight. Most of us know about the Aeroelectric Connection email list, but if you don't, please sign up for the list and get the book (relatively inexpensive in print; free for download). If you're not absolutely confident in your electrical design decisions (or maybe even if you are), get peer review. The AEC list is best, but at least ask here if you don't want to sign up over there. There are a *lot* of wrong ways to wire an a/c. I hate it that the FAA's accident database will now show yet another crash 'caused' by an alternative engine, when in fact it was caused by uninformed/bad electrical design decisions made by the builder. OK, rant mode off... Charlie __ -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------AAEAE14F9854678FA65F3AB6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We don't talk a lot about electrical stuff here, but we probably should. A couple of months ago there was an on-airport engine-out crash landing of an LS V8 powered P51 replica in CA, and a subsequent discussion on the HBA forum with the non-builder, non-flying owner asking what could have gone wrong. He could offer almost no info about the way the plane was set up, but Eliot Seguin was doing what was supposed to be a simple flying off of the insurance company-dictated 5 hours flight time when the failure happened, and he justĀ  posted a long Youtube video on the flight and accident sequence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PHTVTw_Y2A
I found the video very hard to watch due to the visual edit cuts every second or two, but the after-action analysis is worth the hour you'll spend watching.

Guys, the builder of that a/c seemed to find every possible way to make the electrical system failure-prone. Seguin describes the elaborate steps they took prior to him flying the a/c to inspect the airframe, but they apparently totally ignored the electrical system. Because of that, the choices the builder made almost certainly caused the original gear issue, and then caused the total electrical failure that took out everything in the a/c, including the engine. There is no justification for wiring an a/c the way this one was wired.

With most of us running automotive style engine control, electricity is obviously quite critical to engine operation. We really should do Failure Mode Effects Analysis on the whole plane, including the electrical system, but with electrically dependent engines, it's critical. Draw your schematic. Look at *every single wire*. Pretend that it got broken, and ask what happens, and then ask what plan you have in place to work around it. Then short it to ground, and ask the same questions. (You can get very different effects.) Move to the next wire, and do it again. Rinse; repeat. Then fail each component and ask the questions.

Don't let any one electrical issue cause the engine to stop, or cause more than momentary distraction from normal flight. Most of us know about the Aeroelectric Connection email list, but if you don't, please sign up for the list and get the book (relatively inexpensive in print; free for download). If you're not absolutely confident in your electrical design decisions (or maybe even if you are), get peer review. The AEC list is best, but at least ask here if you don't want to sign up over there. There are a *lot* of wrong ways to wire an a/c.

I hate it that the FAA's accident database will now show yet another crash 'caused' by an alternative engine, when in fact it was caused by uninformed/bad electrical design decisions made by the builder.

OK, rant mode off...

Charlie

Virus-free. www.avast.com
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