X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lf1-f53.google.com ([209.85.167.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 1529351 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 May 2021 22:07:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.53; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com Received: by mail-lf1-f53.google.com with SMTP id z9so41059357lfu.8 for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 19:08:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2E42feq+8qHKVkRCJQwqMqNMgb7wi9FKBeoQNIgODxk=; b=flE/+vWmZnn5VjntkBqLfRA2NS80AaYBydJc4vYxoyW5aqjuJIHgoghc9nXNVkwn7X ot4i+vHcsegJaqit2M+qZYHuRYaMybaRDFxkBZ8ob9sV2L3ZGGegmJTZ2O/pjV4+ObTb Ii1ekOVxEPhmovVWoJN/VdWlJPF244/t5voMlFL9CgwSV4g0E2fXqMBJJ8ezkpGcfUN9 uxeTEeBZN3RB7A4fiIV7XDuTPfRvjJ1orpIBWk7ytdJocDNsMwtMucnacdBjUrBOlblA UemNWuK0TLP+ZqfHhEYk4ioryRLTe/vndkh5hs6yTLiHb1UU3cR6DWJREz1FpF/2ZSBr 8sBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2E42feq+8qHKVkRCJQwqMqNMgb7wi9FKBeoQNIgODxk=; b=iBKWX4OAly+PjUovQ8dc1fcuh0JOz3u2fw2OuUx9L4hEGQ3AX0KXNiTEE6U8RfIjBu F8GurrqmoN3Dk7OR6+XN4IgHPMRL9jZ9RKmy2nenPwmmcrnTfvf1c4A5anyBAPU6v0er BU6MAxXb49f5URe+tC8vlhoZMDkjXkW4iUZSUMMA+wXtIpqXoBsfgz5D7wzyL4Z8stUz lHA9ngK4cXgmlS6Ur5oMh3GOneWyOB2sAV015nt79J22PrmiK9tbJcx5LM+ypN1FQ9m/ y3N+MAHS1O8AormWYiMvVND01v+jFRwSA0+RYyzO2AGOwfr4oFJFjkMZilgB9cP1MsiU 4RgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531d202JMqPKGeHPYgQNvV8Pxvb06/8nqg0e8ZnFDpYuA5iy8un5 4RKoyMZ/VW0C4l+VoVciGqAmUrvNVQUOxdcDR0IBkcLIEoKw7ZFW X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwK43tmgYtB2gpkr7KjCZpRrtmiGLC9a9540NXaR9HDGMsCE2FdHraK98MQlEp6hiK3S0MuZirQMB1oVmF3TYo= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4849:: with SMTP id v70mr30408054lfa.590.1620958061224; Thu, 13 May 2021 19:07:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 22:07:29 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooler sizing To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006f692805c240b5df" --0000000000006f692805c240b5df Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Neil, I feel the same way. It's borderline at 200 cub inch for me with this heat. I'd be fine flying in Canada vs Florida. With time and better cowl design / streamline, I think I can get it to work better. But right now, I might have to look for something closer to a new rad in 250 cub inch range. Charlie, I changed the video from private to unlisted. Sorry for that. I also believe it's the same size of Tracy's. We figured if it can cool a 20B, it should cool a 13B. BUT I know my cowl design / inlets are not streamlined to perfection like his is. I monitor both the oil pan and inlet. Yes the oil pan is the hottest, which is why I want to monitor it. Conventional oil starts to break down at 250F. Synthetic will go well into the 300s. Then I monitor the inlet temperature because that is critical to the engine. Racing Beat says 205 inlet but that seems pretty conservative. My personal opinion is you atleast want the oil to hit 220+ during takeoff in the pan to burn off any water. Then come down during cruise. Bobby, I have a digital manometer with tubes and a home hvac one with a fan to measure pressure. Say the leaf blower was 40kts at the inlet, I'd get around 9kts at the front of cooler to 6kts at the back. Crude testing right now, but no dead spots. In the air, playing around 120-130kts IAS. Steve, perfect. I think I'm going to get that. Then as I narrow down on tinkering, I can try to fine tune my cowl to get the CX racing oil cooler to work for better speeds. Finn, I have my inlet oil temp in the same place. I also don't fully trust it myself from being a bit heat soaked, and am thinking of mounting the sensor on the oil filter. I think getting the inlet oil under 200F in cruise would be ideal. 190F would be perfect. 200F I'd be happy with. - Matt Boiteau On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 5:31 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Mat, > > I feel that it is simply size that is the problem. I have ru= n > 2 sizes, First was 300 cub inches and then I cut down to just over 250 > cub inches. The bigger worked very well, so I cut down in the next insta= ll > due to size. It still cools well but borderline, so hoping it will hand= le > the turbo?? Here 85 degrees is very cold, so my suggestion is to upsi= ze > the cooler size=E2=80=94sorry more work but that is simply my opinion. > > Neil; > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Friday, May 14, 2021 7:01 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Oil Cooler sizing > > > > I'm trying to tackle the oil cooling. Currently have a CX racing 11x9x2 ( > https://www.cxracing.com/oil-cooler-kit/OC-248-30-AN10) > > > > On a 30C / 85F day in FL @ 2200rpm cruising > > Coolant is 180 outlet / 170 inlet > > Oil is 225-230 pan / 200 inlet / 215 PSRU. > > > > I use Valvoline VR1 20W-50 standard oil, and have synthetic sitting on th= e > shelf ready to go. Since we can't post much in pictures here, I put a vid= eo > on youtube of the setup. The cowl inlet is 4" and the opening to the star= t > of the wedge is 3". I added some turning vanes to help the wedge shape se= nd > more air to the front, but didn't change the temps too much. > > The only thing left to do is increase the opening on the wedge. I could > probably get away with a 5" opening. If that doesn't work, then time to > source out a bigger rad. What sizes are you guys running? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DONO4bJvw5rc > > > - Matt Boiteau > --0000000000006f692805c240b5df Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Neil, I feel the same way. It's borderline at 200 cub = inch=C2=A0for me with this heat. I'd be fine flying in Canada vs Florid= a. With time and better cowl design / streamline, I think I can get it to w= ork better. But right now, I might have to look for something closer to a n= ew rad in 250 cub inch range.

Charlie, I changed the video from priv= ate to unlisted. Sorry for that. I also believe=C2=A0it's the same size= of Tracy's. We figured if it can cool a 20B, it should cool a 13B. BUT= I know my cowl design / inlets are not streamlined to perfection like his = is. I monitor both the oil pan and inlet. Yes the oil pan is the hottest, w= hich is why I want to monitor it. Conventional oil starts to break down at = 250F. Synthetic will go well into the 300s. Then I monitor the inlet temper= ature because that is critical to the engine. Racing Beat says 205 inlet bu= t that seems pretty conservative. My personal opinion=C2=A0is you atleast w= ant the oil to hit 220+ during takeoff in the pan to burn off any water. Th= en come down during cruise.

Bobby, I have a digital manometer with t= ubes and a home hvac one with a fan to measure pressure. Say the leaf blowe= r was 40kts at the inlet, I'd get around 9kts at the front of cooler to= 6kts at the back. Crude testing right now, but no dead spots. In the air, = playing around 120-130kts IAS.=C2=A0

Steve, perfect. I think I'm= going to get that. Then as I narrow down on tinkering, I can try to fine t= une my cowl to get the CX racing oil cooler to work for better speeds.
=
Finn, I have my inlet oil temp in the same place. I also don= 't fully trust it myself from being a bit heat=C2=A0soaked, and am thin= king of mounting the sensor on the oil filter. I think getting the inlet oi= l under 200F in cruise would be ideal. 190F would be perfect. 200F I'd = be happy with.

- Matt Boiteau


On Thu, May = 13, 2021 at 5:31 PM 12348ung@gmail.co= m <flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net> wrote:

Mat,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 I feel that it is simply size that is the problem.=C2=A0 I have r= un 2 sizes,=C2=A0 First was 300 cub inches and then I cut down to=C2=A0 jus= t over 250 cub inches.=C2=A0 The bigger worked very well, so I cut down in = the next install due to size.=C2=A0 It still cools=C2=A0 well but borderlin= e, so hoping it will handle the turbo??=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Here 85 deg= rees is very cold, so my suggestion is to upsize the cooler size=E2=80=94so= rry more work but that is simply my opinion.

Neil;

=C2=A0

From= : Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:<= /b> Friday, May 14, 2021 7:01 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft &l= t;flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Cooler sizin= g

=C2=A0

I'm trying to tackle the oil cooling. Currentl= y have a CX racing 11x9x2 (https://www.cxracing.com/oil-cooler-ki= t/OC-248-30-AN10)

= =C2=A0

On a 30C / 85F day in FL= @ 2200rpm cruising

Cool= ant is 180 outlet / 170 inlet=C2=A0

Oil is 225-230 pan / 200 inlet / 215 PSRU.=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

I use Valvoline VR1 20W-50 standard oil, and have synth= etic=C2=A0sitting on the shelf ready to go. Since we can't post much in= pictures here, I put a video on youtube of the setup. The cowl inlet is 4&= quot; and the opening to the start of the wedge is 3". I added some tu= rning vanes to help the wedge shape send more air to the front, but didn= 9;t change the temps too much.=C2=A0=C2=A0

The only thing left to do= is increase the opening on the wedge. I could probably get away with a 5&q= uot; opening. If that doesn't work, then time to source out a bigger ra= d. What sizes are you guys running?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= =3DONO4bJvw5rc


- Matt Boiteau

--0000000000006f692805c240b5df--