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Thu, 29 Apr 2021 18:30:21 +0000 Received: by kubenode532.mail-prod1.omega.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 5013e4995a6bae27142e394edcb5e031; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 18:30:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT probes location To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <618344af-e17b-ed34-5d8a-3f590a3ca2cb@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:30:13 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4CC06D367E58EF1018DC70C6" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 210429-0, 04/28/2021), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18138 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/16) Content-Length: 20886 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4CC06D367E58EF1018DC70C6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the offer Bobby. But I had a heck of a time just welding on the small EGT threaded bungs (even warped the manifold plate). I don't see how there would be room for O2 bungs on the stock exhaust manifold. Finn On 4/29/2021 9:29 AM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net wrote: > > Finn, > > I did a lot of testing / tuning trying to get my EGT’s balanced. If I > balanced for full power then my cruise settings would have a large > spread. Changing my electric prop rpm a little would narrow the > spread. I even welded a wideband O2 bung on each runner for grounding > tuning. I could balance the F/A at 30-38” MP and have my EGT’s match > within a couple of degrees. With this balanced I would see an 80-100F > spread at 4800 rpm. Less spread at 5200 rpm, etc. F/A managed to keep > the EGT’s in the low 1600’s at full power. Lean cruise in the mid-1500’s. > > I have a portable dual wideband O2 kit you can borrow if you have room > to weld in bungs for testing. > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 28, 2021 7:44 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: EGT probes location > > Thanks Neil, Steve, Matt and Charlie. > > I did try to get tip of probes centered in the openings, but now I > remember that a very slight difference made a significant difference > in readings during initial engine runs. > > So I think I'll ignore it for now (and set the alarm higher). Then > later on I can try to adjust the front/rear rotor fuel ratio. Perhaps > watching fuel flow vs RPM will be a better way to optimize this? > > Definitely a disadvantage to using the stock exhaust manifold. The > ideal setup would probably be separate (outer) runners, perhaps with > an O2 sensor in each runner. > > Finn > > On 4/28/2021 7:21 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com > wrote: > > Cyl 1 will be hotter since it gets the coolant the last. I can be > anywhere from 50-100f difference sometimes. > > I think too, with our high temperatures, the accuracy of the > probes probably have a good amount of +/- in there. > > - Matt Boiteau > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 7:15 PM Stephen Izett > stephen.izett@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > Hi Finn > > Yes. > An example of our EGT’s at WOT take off - Lambda ~0.9 / AFR 13.3 > 1598 & 1679 - So 81 higher. > I’m not sure our EGT probes are inserted exactly the same > distance into the header. > Not sure the variation in temp this might cause. > One of our probes is burnt out now. > > Cheers > > Steve Izett > > > > On 29 Apr 2021, at 5:30 am, Finn Lassen > finn.lassen@verizon.net > > wrote: > > > > So, I'm using the Renesis stock exhaust manifold. > > > > Tried to mount the EGT probes as close as possible and same > distance from the ports. > > > > However, at high power I'm seeing as much as 120F higher on > rotor 2. > > > > Exhaust gas from rotor 1 passes by rotor 2 exhaust port so > I'm wondering if that somehow increases rotor 2 EGT readings. > > > > Caught my attention today when EGT2 got above 1,800F at > 6,200 RPM and 161 mph TAS @ 3,300' density altitude. > > > > Any of you that's using the stock exhaust manifold run into > this? > > > > Finn > > > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://maillancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Image removed by sender. Avast logo > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > > > *Disclaimer* > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is > confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and > others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking > action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited and may be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been > automatically archived by *Mimecast Ltd*, an innovator in Software as > a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a *safer* and *more useful* > place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, > archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here > . > --------------4CC06D367E58EF1018DC70C6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks for the offer Bobby.

But I had a heck of a time just welding on the small EGT threaded bungs (even warped the manifold plate). I don't see how there would be room for O2 bungs on the stock exhaust manifold.

Finn

On 4/29/2021 9:29 AM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net wrote:

Finn,

 

I did a lot of testing / tuning trying to get my EGT’s balanced. If I balanced for full power then my cruise settings would have a large spread. Changing my electric prop rpm a little would narrow the spread. I even welded a wideband O2 bung on each runner for grounding tuning. I could balance the F/A at 30-38” MP and have my EGT’s match within a couple of degrees. With this balanced I would see an 80-100F spread at 4800 rpm. Less spread at 5200 rpm, etc. F/A managed to keep the EGT’s in the low 1600’s at full power. Lean cruise in the mid-1500’s.

 

I have a portable dual wideband O2 kit you can borrow if you have room to weld in bungs for testing.

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 7:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT probes location

 

Thanks Neil, Steve, Matt and Charlie.

I did try to get tip of probes centered in the openings, but now I remember that a very slight difference made a significant difference in readings during initial engine runs.

So I think I'll ignore it for now (and set the alarm higher). Then later on I can try to adjust the front/rear rotor fuel ratio. Perhaps watching fuel flow vs RPM will be a better way to optimize this?

Definitely a disadvantage to using the stock exhaust manifold. The ideal setup would probably be separate (outer) runners, perhaps with an O2 sensor in each runner.

Finn

On 4/28/2021 7:21 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:

Cyl 1 will be hotter since it gets the coolant the last. I can be anywhere from 50-100f difference sometimes.

I think too, with our high temperatures, the accuracy of the probes probably have a good amount of +/- in there.

- Matt Boiteau

 

 

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 7:15 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Finn

Yes.
An example of our EGT’s at WOT take off - Lambda ~0.9 / AFR 13.3
1598 & 1679 - So 81 higher.
I’m not sure our EGT probes are inserted exactly the same distance into the header.
Not sure the variation in temp this might cause.
One of our probes is burnt out now.

Cheers

Steve Izett


> On 29 Apr 2021, at 5:30 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> So, I'm using the Renesis stock exhaust manifold.
>
> Tried to mount the EGT probes as close as possible and same distance from the ports.
>
> However, at high power I'm seeing as much as 120F higher on rotor 2.
>
> Exhaust gas from rotor 1 passes by rotor 2 exhaust port so I'm wondering if that somehow increases rotor 2 EGT readings.
>
> Caught my attention today when EGT2 got above 1,800F at 6,200 RPM and 161 mph TAS @ 3,300' density altitude.
>
> Any of you that's using the stock exhaust manifold run into this?
>
> Finn
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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