X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1363640 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 23:08:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.50; envelope-from=stephen.izett@gmail.com Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id t18so355071pjs.3 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:08:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=UA5ajA6vYvEYPFoWLMivWbPK3XR8XCaiWkk2/ANsxZc=; b=k/NTZA0HOrsAPwadGPMYOr8K2m2f1ckeoAdHgA4JD+y4Zr7MyA5VuHtmKQiCY+f7Ps cJUEXmUh41s+ptS/zwHtFilGsfd9I9R4Eua11PXTdfTacbUiq1WNz7RopLreIvCbQ7DY L+dGAa24z3Ri0JV8+9kxGr8KDn+kb0y72CLTQjchwAYfKr3XxijvFtG8oyFF+mz3M8p5 qCwVQ2w1V5t3PQ+BU4zkT9e2hSczAbgJCUzdA6/qtV36k2Ct+19wdbYvnj4R3jYs1vtq cl78/WpLzNhd8WQStAH9oHinPiBMJH69PbC+mbpOyl0EfeXgrWgIzeLdPoqRCHo5VmmM LbFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=UA5ajA6vYvEYPFoWLMivWbPK3XR8XCaiWkk2/ANsxZc=; b=AG5XzIMx8H4IDGQO8RXt7s0utl0jOhPKCe29707Lbfq3N5lgeAgOWFXuB9QxXEClUP CCWg8rpveDeBJ5EVt+o2tuPDix53pHfu5G8DO7f0EIPagimPyEllgINgASdCGSfoFZNp B+/JVmex7Tf0gvbRBlMreFuLQPm+mlq/SJHDMlA8VlU19uYwKoFqSjrZXfrmz+Kxr3wj D6H8f4Zne91eR6bmVHTQaShW3YI+CslusdmPHAm55pXu1a3QlrTCHfTikXEn1axUDZNz hd/f6Y0HKMrY63YYR9zPdXUcZh3GgKIDMtKwYdauzI+NN+szO9FHm+wLZOgums7MjMkn n6bA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530E7oahkqVSX8eK9NG2YdgHplZQIc/w19JcEuniOC9QAHbMEXJt 6IJho+I7Wn/Vt2R5yHKVNkrOwfQtgTM0tA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzX8+rRgO7L1dRAstwR54CmLdy5lskHsF+P3JdAQR45uZztIUpAuwH73Dz6XOKL1JOkmvrRYg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:f286:: with SMTP id fs6mr6696976pjb.183.1617246481908; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.170] (203-59-74-185.perm.iinet.net.au. [203.59.74.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15sm4010980pje.28.2021.03.31.20.08.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ADA5F085-43D9-403D-930E-073511D4A47B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] MISTRAL Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2021 11:07:57 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <037EA9C1-3B62-4D65-90E1-1D6D6524EE16@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) --Apple-Mail=_ADA5F085-43D9-403D-930E-073511D4A47B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 =46rom my notes: the Renesis 4 Port manifold was pretty close to 24 = inches between the engine face and throttle body. Steve I > On 1 Apr 2021, at 9:44 am, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = wrote: >=20 > Stephen, > Sorry for the delay in getting back with you about the "Mistral" = intake runner lengths , etc............Be aware these numbers are = approximate but in the ballpark............The runner lengths are approx = centerline > from the face of the 13B engine block to the throttle = body..........Both the primary and secondary runners merge into a "V" = shaped cast aluminum plenum which includes the throttle body.........The = runner lengths=20 > are to the interior side of the throttle body..........The runners = from cast aluminum intake manifold to cast plenum are thin wall aluminum = tubing..........I do not have access to the ID of these but have OD = only....... >=20 > Primary Runner length approximately.........24 inches > Primary Runner "OD" approximately..........1.40 inches > Secondary Runner length approximately.....24 inches > Secondary Runner "OD" approximately.......1.66 inches > Throttle Body "ID" approximately..................2.85 inches >=20 > Hope this helps, > Kelly Troyer >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:08 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = > wrote: > Thanks Kelly. If possible the ID of those runners as well please. >=20 >=20 > > On 16 Mar 2021, at 10:44 pm, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = > wrote: > >=20 > > Steve, > > Bear with me but as soon as practicable I will do my best to = measure the intake length from engine face to face of the=20 > > throttle body (plus ID of throttle body)............Yes the = "Mistral" engines are side intake ports............I believe (from = memory) > > that they rated HP at 6500 rpm...........Still waiting on all the = "Mistral" documentation from the seller............ > >=20 > > Best, > > Kelly Troyer > >=20 > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:51 AM Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@gmail.com = > = wrote: > > Hi Kelly > > Sounds really cool. Such a shame Mistral didn=E2=80=99t make it. > > I thought their engines were side port. I=E2=80=99d love to know the = length of the inlet from the engine face to the throttle body and the = rpm that they rate the 200hp. > >=20 > > Cheers > >=20 > > Steve Izett > > Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C > >=20 > >=20 > > > On 16 Mar 2021, at 9:59 am, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = > wrote: > > >=20 > > > Lee, > > > I ask because I recently became the proud owner of the final = iteration (Designed to be certified) "Mistral G200-C1B" 200hp > > > Rotary engine and I am just curious as to what apex seals they = used in them........Since "Mistral" seems to be out of business I > > > do not know where to get information (I have heard that the = Chinese bought them out)..............I do not need apex seals as the=20 > > > engine only has about 10 flying hours on it..............=20 > > >=20 > > > Thanks, > > > Kelly Troyer > > >=20 > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 6:01 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com = > wrote: > > > I did not. I was asked to travel about inspecting installations = prior to first flight, or to assist with installations. > > > But if asked I would have suggested Ceramic seals.=20 > > > =20 > > > We raced with Carbon seals and later, Ceramic seals. Carbons wear = too fast for aircraft use but are soft and leave the housing chrome = looking better than new as the years go by. No detectable wear at all. = Near perfect sealing. No skipping, no need for an extra spring. > > > Same for Ceramics. Light weight. No wear. Very expensive. But if = you can use the same housings for 4 or 5 years, then not so bad. The = duty cycle of an aircraft engine is much tougher than that of a racer or = street engine. =20 > > > All early engines Had the wide carbon seals. We machined them down = to fit the later rotors. So early housings would often run well over = 100,000 miles. The iron seals with a chrome face have you running a = chrome face against a chrome housing. Bad Mojo. With Premixing and or = oil injection not so bad. Hard starting suggests=20 > > > worn apex seals. Both ceramic and carbon seals need to be sized = to the housing width. > > > Any question, any time.=20 > > > Lynn E. Hanover=20 > > > =20 > > > message dated 3/14/2021 11:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > > =20 > > > Lee Hanover, > > > I seem to remember that you had some interaction back in the = day with "MISTRAL" when they were developing their > > > Rotary engines .........If so did you ever hear what tip seals = they used in their engines ? (Iron , Ceramic , Etc)........... > > > =20 > > > Thanks, > > > --=20 > > > Kelly Troyer > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_ADA5F085-43D9-403D-930E-073511D4A47B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 =46ro= m my notes: the Renesis 4 Port manifold was pretty close to 24 inches = between the engine face and throttle body.

Steve I

On 1 Apr = 2021, at 9:44 am, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Stephen,
  =  Sorry for the delay in getting back with you about the "Mistral" = intake runner lengths , etc............Be aware these numbers are = approximate but in the ballpark............The runner lengths are approx = centerline
from the face of the 13B engine block to = the throttle body..........Both the primary and secondary runners merge = into a "V" shaped cast aluminum plenum which includes the throttle = body.........The runner lengths 
are to the = interior side of the throttle body..........The runners from cast = aluminum intake manifold to cast plenum are thin wall aluminum = tubing..........I do not have access to the ID of these but have OD = only.......

Primary Runner length approximately.........24 = inches
Primary Runner "OD"  = approximately..........1.40 inches
Secondary Runner = length approximately.....24 inches
Secondary Runner = "OD" approximately.......1.66 inches
Throttle Body = "ID" approximately..................2.85 inches

  Hope this helps,
Kelly Troyer


On Tue, Mar = 16, 2021 at 5:08 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Kelly. If possible the ID of = those runners as well please.


> On 16 Mar 2021, at 10:44 pm, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>   Bear with me but as soon as practicable I will do my = best to measure the intake length from engine face to face of the
> throttle body (plus ID of throttle body)............Yes the = "Mistral" engines are side intake ports............I believe (from = memory)
> that they rated HP at 6500 rpm...........Still waiting on all the = "Mistral" documentation from the seller............
>
> Best,
> Kelly Troyer
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:51 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> Hi Kelly
> Sounds really cool. Such a shame Mistral didn=E2=80=99t make it.
> I thought their engines were side port. I=E2=80=99d love to know = the length of the inlet from the engine face to the throttle body and = the rpm that they rate the 200hp.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve Izett
> Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C
>
>
> > On 16 Mar 2021, at 9:59 am, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >
> > Lee,
> >       I ask because I recently became the = proud owner of the final iteration (Designed to be certified)  = "Mistral G200-C1B" 200hp
> > Rotary engine  and I am just curious as to what apex = seals they used in them........Since "Mistral" seems to be out of = business I
> > do not know where to get information (I have heard that the = Chinese bought them out)..............I do not need apex seals as the =
> > engine only has about 10 flying hours on it..............
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kelly Troyer
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 6:01 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > I did not. I was asked to travel about inspecting = installations prior to first flight, or to assist with installations.
> > But  if asked I would have suggested Ceramic  seals. =
> > 
> > We raced with Carbon seals and later, Ceramic seals. Carbons = wear too fast for aircraft use but are soft and leave the housing chrome = looking better than new as the years go by. No detectable wear at all. = Near perfect sealing.  No skipping, no need for an extra spring.
> > Same for Ceramics. Light weight. No wear. Very expensive. But = if you can use the same housings for 4 or 5 years, then not so = bad.  The duty cycle of an aircraft engine is much tougher than = that of a racer or street engine. 
> > All early engines Had the wide carbon seals. We machined them = down to fit the later rotors. So early housings would often run well = over 100,000 miles.  The iron seals with a chrome face have you = running a chrome face against a chrome housing. Bad Mojo. With Premixing = and or oil injection not so bad. Hard starting suggests
> > worn apex seals.  Both ceramic and carbon seals need to = be sized to the housing width.
> > Any question, any time.
> > Lynn E. Hanover
> > 
> >  message dated 3/14/2021 11:29:17 PM Eastern Standard = Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
> > 
> > Lee Hanover,
> >     I seem to remember that you had some = interaction back in the day with "MISTRAL" when they were developing = their
> > Rotary engines .........If so did you ever hear what tip seals = they used in their engines ? (Iron , Ceramic , Etc)...........
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Kelly Troyer
>




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