X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic305-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1281775 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 05 Mar 2021 23:47:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.133.40; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1615006015; bh=3tffCXcp7sKPDyS/bzdzDhMcD9afuHu2migcJoXD4wk=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=JwQXS4cDvO80aF9QK1s/oq6mXqh+iXCC6tnvTViuvVgPdgiraf4BhOZiXFxyZxf6bTlYAcaDh/J/sDsuRSYe30yg3TCcTGcTuCfvgE4t+tY4mPXvDPIqwkiVGfnfO9XkUt9Rj1wv01wBmJEvGMdlMX3z9xufoHFtDJLgJXp16tU/rP4u8EvnZOVu4SVnLbakTCgo2k6l1y57kVUEVGwxbZK6NgxQhGtZjCml3qLNdqb/opDwoUm9SuBoFMZ0MvMV+2TPkhK6Nr7NxvxaSMiawKrE5tZ+M7wzo7pFajtnC2PHlET+mLWv9L6dcM1/fHTxjVTgev70Jwar/3vQforaFw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1615006015; bh=nmS9f9rJviOd5pMZ9qMT8uJS96BCWV/5VATMGRSuTSb=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=XVS4wD+9uFRfiHCfF0Dkk//Z/jno89mbrBKendHwWW93M1/R151Kc3Z0EvL6Qhj2f2ZqfAkM9gtYn3xwCVtYYc3JBcxK5U440QWVKVPUvFgCRwed9wQn/hNSvi+AQj61sFydruX2gX/JXknvZevV04CNt0N7wZWIgx+DsGPQ4cc/p+1z2H/KjDwVkvld5xOw4vx6M15blZn0jvIyMzpCMva0liDHOO9ONbHiipQhgJKunyEhTb0Mo0T31lR0vJk3RXOXmjXODEIHILxk8DmHFce6YzA/YKsvW31QTPm3xj14NxaX3U0Inn+PbV8PJYFZ1hfSvTZ6PS/pavQq56hH2Q== X-YMail-OSG: 0d2sB24VM1kryx50fyXjX1LwEnwqsordI9vuzIS7bbypyRlnvNAr_GmOQ89SDiz riavZvIv5nQ2I9vlOSeCsCKUEQfKUeNCutvOIJ3FUI.WLdbBPU2eO2RYhHh7GQG241Lpv4HIfMNG spoxU_AqROzQhOgEW9gk_1ikHqUsmLr0kfIHsi2aFsNX7cUjjGvQHvVAJXwSgLpH8UmDqq7ScuBF 2kichlHSW5l53RjwBxStTKcxIdX7ckwNFRELf_94FviSZlTwIYeEDDiuQhcAFto6Z7LgB.6EAZvk fJEhBqPUZIlWVgprLcKKcekoRwXSY0umSnpedjn0wzpG106W8qOwlkdIBa7UFsVZomNm2dHdsimi OejBaLJdlQAid2QV6hvhSvHG084HVbnTb6TLPKwDj8xpno4tzVEquNyvX77mXn8poMPKnSBgDaD2 zLG9Fj9oI.ZrgKB8KnQdNlcpEhujGBAEs2VVPV4hBIa.hfoSOe8c_uyPKn76AvBlv_i0K7RFFVF7 xUYmDxdBM1yd4v3V.x0F2_M1AEq_C_4m78CSr6sXs6ZbElfiiQ4MoeHX4RbUtnyKxrTr9INT.bg2 EChSiBdvUO2UH.YtwtazV_oYJNH_Bff2iVkEi.pEGPoZSTlCMDACxMhhJqk4MJhdwhlh2PUOQwzJ _X3e30Tj_x9snQlu_akYsWLd5pZBe8KWTL8ysvxgjuUPxSRyDqC2xtI8RmJuuNJ2K.lZjsCnCCI0 B4z14dwArcrN8e_77mupzX4sB2v2TSbVbjhlfBLV7P75fKnnC7XYm6NOXSON1g8.8EBS.yCLtvY6 ovqmbpiNwqGBoAe7Zo6a8F0_rx6bAGfXevPILQ7YNVmuNKewkH9uyBvbBMeZCESxrGLaI25c9cfC PyPJ_6APXa4wnC7z39lYrMjFcks97Xa_3lkFw1ST7iJdpGEi8AQ.qpKZDJw6rtpr9i4ydXw2kEUh QtjhiIh0QC8WIAh0jAtCJJ2bfvS4msjZ7UZNQPt6uH15lWN.Uf4kPeDhoCfPQ0e6U9rc2WFQspuu yaR70qqN4uixUEMite6zQCKXyUsGaEdmbHHFItDWeFoXEc_4XYS6MsLMWYalyrWpUtF_QwQX3znK w46TjAcPmJazFxb5BUkRDWBRZNcFT4BtBu_K4XVWQDpdjXcV.n0BZ8hwCOIws8hrfHZtSRWwp7yh KPWb8e81SU7iNaBgvMt84xjPPfbt1oI8L7toxs2952dquavedcPUGQp841SqcBF9Br53Hi99HjyQ 6oef2I7.dSQ8F6JuZ5tIQ_vmO8HTunTndji5_Sgk2TqTMJKYODbOvPtrFRzD.eCcEXVReswurHLw ..oToKHx_4sY73e9YmHLRBNPY4U0cCoejomrNvImIBRtrKTglffmaFSLJT3RvIzsSMPSLOExtfHu 9MrhtQEx.ulSQP.XSTAeNO3S7f_T7tz3Ha.eWN5FMheh_oFRjbisX0dey_Lwp2SlbcL7pF_D1V2Z pyFiZa79NZINRr618j5zG7nzpUNHaxkhNKr2zEpRcUmOhg52p1DXApoPKd9ja5WVuMLpVmMErIkr bZHgqLgkmA.JhkweWp_dOfjkSOTce7NGgGLiGVDovpDW5SXY12twLx1cHhnf95hI3JKh7usCW4kZ buxcS4bmBVIx1SyqBX9qhEOjwYXfsRIesboCULiXK7HuEAGIMDenLcnqHo1aWIzf4ppL.n3lN_Pw 8_f40xNrJWvU3zkKMl3xVktNFh1LwbUV56.QAiIwTnl2fo..v2u_LqMpRcwhW3Qa2XNdRvNQu5ut xd5B4LTgvA5F0oqkKqTZ.CEb7qkZbgyxK__8ViHEjrV9.LUCxU3OWGidW3SdEJ4gBrdgAFhLUJBQ T9rGsv3YC0dMbtDx8UKxm_OAMNb47hr0gc2nhtWgyO7phHPLR58BsXPjGDY_Z2gjEHgMW4jk3wlI z6hT1zPBDWdWVXR8IGA2O6CzMe3XH_fdP6BFWnodm3eZDdDa.EDc6nezjhbWjzvRuVxHioZ1DCXK cMS0yqQBcHoRndZSDknZxZMi9pxihhX9Bjy4NKy4FHjBjdwgAZxtEKCAsTFEXdEpYisTEPXQcdEx M28iGiw_3YDqZQzcE2JAnnJqELY4vMCAqDMllleRdpWqhUi2BUDbkhs1das4QNfdXfn88mJ6CIIf jljUg6t_A3kZMVAC3iYyx24kIp5qjsYXyjYSyakQ8H00A_J9PTsoAbv0v3081CqrZ.j.v_HTEMQk g3a971gPOH3xN4gONIfNLcOtzThukTslPu8dqBPN6uere_.BwAR_WkioF28oS8tQ.nX_8Q9ve0dT wn9tK5RtFvPSi.z4VgaIIMd1WiJyc61lSpbtj800sZuxGfEXeEtXMf4Rl7FLZM7xPSiI1vnOeJgC 30wA5y_bw8tfobvf5ImrywqIXaHO51BgoNr54q2Rz7kjeICI- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 6 Mar 2021 04:46:55 +0000 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2021 04:46:48 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: lehanover To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <873921870.71891.1615006008976@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_71890_1781748123.1615006008975" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17872 aolloki unknown Content-Length: 26991 ------=_Part_71890_1781748123.1615006008975 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_71889_872935380.1615006008925" ------=_Part_71889_872935380.1615006008925 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A mechanical retainer.=C2=A0 Can be a number of small machine screws with w= ashers. Or washers with a bent lip so as to impinge on the seal body.=C2=A0= Could be a spring with a "U" shaped piece of heavy wire.=C2=A0 Can be a me= tal strap with a "U" shaped end and a foot to push on the seal body.=C2=A0= =C2=A0You can also mount a slinger on a shaft that needs a seal. Stock earl= y Mazda engines had slingers. Just a washer in the front stack. It would be= inside the engine just ahead of the front seal, so as to keep large quanti= ties of oil off of the front seal under braking or in our case a long downh= ill slog.=C2=A0=C2=A0In a message dated 3/3/2021 3:37:21 PM Eastern Standar= d Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:=C2=A0 Lynn, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ha= ve never thought of putting an O ring in with a lip seal.=C2=A0 When you sa= y =E2=80=9Cseal retainer=E2=80=9D is this like Loctite or a mechanical reta= iner?? Neil. =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 7:23 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal =C2=A0 For nearly every oil seal there is a double lip oil seal that fits in the s= ame space.=C2=A0 I used these on rotary engines and transmissions. I also i= nstalled a thin "O" ring in the base of each hole so no matter what might h= appen, the seal would always seal. A seal retainer also was applied so that= the seal could not move out of the cavity any amount at all.=C2=A0 When us= ing a double lip seal, add a bit of synthetic grease between the lips so th= at both lips are lubricated always.=C2=A0 On the main seal I shortened the = spring a bit to add a bit more pressure.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 My engines did not leak at all but a failed side seal or oil scraper can su= ddenly dump sump gasses or oil into the case.=C2=A0 Better a few more minut= es of power than not.=C2=A0 I also glued them in with GE 100% tub and tile = caulk. =C2=A0 I had one oil seal escape the tail shaft of a transmission early in life. T= he tranns got real hot, the hole got bigger than the seal, the seal fell ou= t. The trans lost all of it's oil. I lost the transmission.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rotaries require a crank case breather to keep such loading off of the seal= s. Actual airplanes have such breather separators.=C2=A0 Excessive blow by = can turn seals inside out and ruin a day, or just generate annoying leaks. =C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In a message dated 2/26/2021 9:00:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: =C2=A0 Finn, =C2=A0 Steve posted a picture of three different 5mm bearings back in 2019. The AZ= K35525 I ordered and received has a bronze inner and steel outer race. I ha= ve no idea on the oil seals.=20 =C2=A0 Bobby =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:28 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal =C2=A0 Thanks Bobby! When I Google AZK35525 most pictures don't show any races. Not included? Any significant difference between the Timken and National 350909 seals? Finn On 2/25/2021 3:59 PM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net wrote: Finn, =C2=A0 A few us are / were using the bearing Steve identified. I had 34.5 hours on= the new bearing when I sold the RV10. The bearing still look new.=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 5MM needle cage assy=C2=A0 bronze inner race / steel outer race 35mm=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 AZK35525 |=20 35mm |=20 52mm |=20 5mm |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 7000 rpm | =C2=A0 My oil seal was leaking and replaced at the same time as the 5MM bearing. T= he leak was only detectable at idle. A small streak of oil was form below t= he seal. In flight the oil would blow everywhere making it impossible to lo= cated the source.=20 =C2=A0 |=20 350909 |=20 Rear Oil Seal=C2=A0 National Oil Seal | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bobby =E2=80=93 S21 kit has arrived.=20 =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 12:46 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] RD-1C input shaft oil seal =C2=A0 So there's a bunch of posts of input shaft oil seal failures. But what is the recommended oil seal? I think I've traced my oil leak to that. (Tricky because found drops on=20 fittings near oil filter base after last flight. But after wrapping=20 paper towels around the fittings and doing a ground run-up, only traces=20 of oil is on the outside of them -- likely slung up from the input shaft). On a different note. January last year I bought a=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CINA 81107T= N=20 Cylindrical Roller Thrust Bearing, Polyamide Nylon Cage, Open End,=20 Metric, 35mm ID, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 6500rpm Maximum Rotational Speed=E2= =80=9D=20 on Amazon for $18.40 to replace the input thrust bearings on my RV-3B.=20 (The stacked bearings are cutting a groove in the shaft.) Now the same=20 bearing set costs $135 and up. WTF! Did find SKF 81107TN on eBay for=20 $30.50. But dang! No inflation? Finn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml =C2=A0 Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confiden= tial. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized = to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that a= ny disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the co= ntents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been auto= matically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (= SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human = generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To fin= d out more Click Here. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=20 |=20 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20 www.avast.com=20 | =C2=A0 -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html ------=_Part_71889_872935380.1615006008925 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A mechanical retainer.  Can be a number of small= machine screws with washers. Or washers with a bent lip so as to impinge o= n the seal body.  Could be a spring with a "U" shaped piece of heavy w= ire.  Can be a metal strap with a "U" shaped end and a foot to push on= the seal body. 
 
You can also mount a slinger on a shaft that needs a = seal. Stock early Mazda engines had slingers. Just a washer in the front st= ack. It would be inside the engine just ahead of the front seal, so as to k= eep large quantities of oil off of the front seal under braking or in our c= ase a long downhill slog. 
 
In a message dated 3/3/2021 3:37:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lan= caironline.net writes:
 

Lynn,

   =           Have never thought o= f putting an O ring in with a lip seal.  When you say “seal reta= iner” is this like Loctite or a mechanical retainer??

Neil.

 

From: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Th= ursday, March 4, 2021 7:23 AM
To: Rotary motors in airc= raft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyR= otary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal

 

For nearly every oil seal there= is a double lip oil seal that fits in the same space.  I used these o= n rotary engines and transmissions. I also installed a thin "O" ring in the= base of each hole so no matter what might happen, the seal would always se= al. A seal retainer also was applied so that the seal could not move out of= the cavity any amount at all.  When using a double lip seal, add a bi= t of synthetic grease between the lips so that both lips are lubricated alw= ays.  On the main seal I shortened the spring a bit to add a bit more = pressure. 

 

My engines did not leak at all = but a failed side seal or oil scraper can suddenly dump sump gasses or oil = into the case.  Better a few more minutes of power than not.  I a= lso glued them in with GE 100% tub and tile caulk.

 

I had one oil seal escape the t= ail shaft of a transmission early in life. The tranns got real hot, the hol= e got bigger than the seal, the seal fell out. The trans lost all of it's o= il. I lost the transmission. 

 

Rotaries require a crank case b= reather to keep such loading off of the seals. Actual airplanes have such b= reather separators.  Excessive blow by can turn seals inside out and r= uin a day, or just generate annoying leaks.

 

Lynn E. Hanover 

 

 

 

In a message dated 2/26/2021 9:00:38 AM= Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.= net writes:

 

Finn,

 <= /span>

Steve p= osted a picture of three different 5mm bearings back in 2019. The AZK35525 = I ordered and received has a bronze inner and steel outer race. I have no i= dea on the oil seals.

 <= /span>

Bobby

 <= /span>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, = 2021 3:28 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= RD-1C input shaft oil seal

 

Thanks Bobby!

When I Google AZK35525 most pictures don't show any races. Not included?

Any signific= ant difference between the Timken and National 350909 seals?

Finn
On 2/25/2021 3:59 PM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.ne= t wrote:

Finn,

 <= /span>

A few u= s are / were using the bearing Steve identified. I had 34.5 hours on the ne= w bearing when I sold the RV10. The bearing still look new.

 <= /span>

 

5MM needle cage assy  bronze inner= race / steel outer race 35mm    AZK35525

35mm

52mm

5mm

 

7000 rpm

 <= /span>

My oil = seal was leaking and replaced at the same time as the 5MM bearing. The leak= was only detectable at idle. A small streak of oil was form below the seal= . In flight the oil would blow everywhere making it impossible to located t= he source.

 <= /span>

350909

Rear Oil Seal  National Oil Seal

 <= /span>

 <= /span>

Bobby &= ndash; S21 kit has arrived.

 <= /span>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, = 2021 12:46 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] RD= -1C input shaft oil seal

 

So there's a bunch of posts of input sh= aft oil seal failures.

But what is the recommended oil seal?

= I think I've traced my oil leak to that. (Tricky because found drops on fittings near oil filter base after last flight. But after wrapping
pa= per towels around the fittings and doing a ground run-up, only traces
o= f oil is on the outside of them -- likely slung up from the input shaft).
On a different note. January last year I bought a  “INA 81= 107TN
Cylindrical Roller Thrust Bearing, Polyamide Nylon Cage, Open End= ,
Metric, 35mm ID, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 6500rpm Maximum Rotational Spee= d”
on Amazon for $18.40 to replace the input thrust bearings on m= y RV-3B.
(The stacked bearings are cutting a groove in the shaft.) Now = the same
bearing set costs $135 and up. WTF! Did find SKF 81107TN on eB= ay for
$30.50. But dang! No inflation?

Finn


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Disclaimer

The information contai= ned in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended s= olely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you = are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying= , distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this informa= tion is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This email has been= scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived = by Mimecast Ltd= , an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business= . Providing a s= afer and more useful place for your human generated data. = Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here.

 

 =

3D"Image

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